User profile for user: SeaDream
SeaDream Author
User level: Level 1
16 points

MP3 file size: how big can it be when listened to from a website ?

Hi - I'm getting a project ready to submit as an Mp3 file to a website where it will be placed alongside similar projects for people to listen to, compare and vote for, but NOT download.

The site recommended the *You Send it* service for sending it via internet.

The site itself is well established, functions very efficiently and already has video and audio clips.

I bounced my piece to see how large it would be ie. in 320kbs quality it is 14.2 MB and in 256 kbs quality it is 12.3 MB. The piece lasts 6 mins.

I would love to send in the best quality possible, since I was asked to reduce the file size of music I wrote for a webcast to 2 MB and it sounded terrible ! However - I'm not sure what is practical: will a 14.3 MB file take a long time to listen to ?


I'd really appreciate some guidance on this issue.

Thanks, Kay.

iMac7,1 Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.4 GHz, 4 GB RAM,, Mac OS X (10.4.11), Logic Studio, Ivory, VSL Standard+Extended

Posted on Mar 26, 2009 9:25 AM

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17 replies
User profile for user: noeqplease
noeqplease
User level: Level 4
3,589 points

Mar 26, 2009 9:29 AM in response to SeaDream

SeaDream wrote:
Hi - I'm getting a project ready to submit as an Mp3 file to a website where it will be placed alongside similar projects for people to listen to, compare and vote for, but NOT download.

The site recommended the *You Send it* service for sending it via internet.

The site itself is well established, functions very efficiently and already has video and audio clips.

I bounced my piece to see how large it would be ie. in 320kbs quality it is 14.2 MB and in 256 kbs quality it is 12.3 MB. The piece lasts 6 mins.

I would love to send in the best quality possible, since I was asked to reduce the file size of music I wrote for a webcast to 2 MB and it sounded terrible ! However - I'm not sure what is practical: will a 14.3 MB file take a long time to listen to ?


I'd really appreciate some guidance on this issue.

Thanks, Kay.


I think this is a question for the website you will be submitting to. What are their specific guidelines?

You might end up going down to 192 kbps. In this case, I highly recommend you master a mix differently, and remove all frequencies below and above the limit for mp3 : namely, hard filter everything below 30 Hz, and fliter with a 12 dB / octave filter everything above 12 kHz.

Sad, but at least if you do this, you will be knowing what gets cut off anyways, and you can do a mix just for that purpose, increasing your chances of a better sounding internet version of your music, and reducing the file size enough to make it playback properly across a number of bandwidths and platforms.

Cheers
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User profile for user: SeaDream
SeaDream Author
User level: Level 1
16 points

Mar 26, 2009 9:42 AM in response to SeaDream

Well- when I asked if there were restrictions on file size, my answer was:

<+I imagine we can use whatever you send. I haven’t discussed the file sizes with M yet, but will do so this week since I need to start putting all the submissions together. If there are any restrictions, I’ll let you know+.>

The submission date is March 31st so I need to be prepared - with me it's very much learning by doing and that can take some time !

Kay.
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User profile for user: noeqplease
noeqplease
User level: Level 4
3,589 points

Mar 26, 2009 9:59 AM in response to SeaDream

SeaDream wrote:
May I ask where exactly I should do this filtering ? In the EXS 24 ? Or ? You can see that I'm not so knowledgable ........... but I'm very willing to learn !

Kay.


The EXS24 is a sampler. You need an equalizer to do the filtering.

1.- Export your mix as a Stereo file. Set it so that it is the SAME smaple rate and bit depth as your multitrack song. If it is 48 kHz /24 bit, then export the mix as that. This way you are not converting down yet. This is done later on.

2.- Make a NEW Logic song, set the sample rate and bit depth to what your stereo mix file is.

3.- Import your stereo mix file, and place it on a new track.

4.- Insert a Linear Phase EQ followed by a Limiter. The limiter is there to ensure you do not peakr and distort the file accidentally.

5.- Set the Linear Phase (LP) EQ to filter out all frequencies below 30 hZ, with as steep a filter curve as possible. If you don't know what any of these words mean, please refer to the manual that is for plugins, and open it to the Linear Phase EQ pages.

6.- Set the lowpass filter to filter out everything starting at 12kHz, and with a slope of 12dB per octave.

7.- Then, bounce out this new file, and name it something appropriate, like 'song name-mastered'.

8.- import this new file, and THEN export it with the 192 kbit mp3 codec, found when you choose to export a file.

Consult the manual, if you get stuck at any step.

Cheers
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User profile for user: noeqplease
noeqplease
User level: Level 4
3,589 points

Mar 27, 2009 8:40 AM in response to fredrp

fredrp wrote:
hey, I'm intrigued by this idea of rolling off the highs for Internet delivery. Can you 'splain why, or send me off to read something? Thanks.
fred


This is due to the mp3 codec creating audible artifacts at higher frequencies. It does so more with the higher frequencies than midrange and low, for which it is more tailored. usually these artifacts appear as chirps, white noise, etc.

If you feed the mp3 encoder less high stuff, it has less to destroy in the process. "Don't feed the beast, so you don't get bitten".

Remember, an mp3 codec is a "Lossy" encoding process that eliminates as much as 90% of your data, and stuff simply gets messed up whenever you use it.

Cheers
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User profile for user: noeqplease
noeqplease
User level: Level 4
3,589 points

Mar 27, 2009 8:44 AM in response to SeaDream

SeaDream wrote:
Sorry -I don't understand these points.

1.- Export your mix as a Stereo file. What is the mix ? Not the whole song it seems. Where should I export it from and to ?


" What is the mix ?" The mix is what you end up with, after... ehem, MIXING your multitrack down to stereo.

The end result is one file, usually Stereo (although if you do surround, you can endup with a surround file) that is then burned to disc, or in our case, processed further before encoding for the internet.

3.- Import your stereo mix file, and place it on a new track. How ?


You do know how to import an audio file into Logic, yes? If you don't, I suggest you first learn to use your computer. "Macs for Dummies" is a good start.

Elucidation, please !


Reading the manual, please... this is a most basic function, found in all D.A.W.s

Thanks, Kay.
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User profile for user: F-L-E-X-I-S
F-L-E-X-I-S
User level: Level 2
363 points

Mar 27, 2009 10:25 AM in response to SeaDream

One thing to be aware of (especially when posting mp3's that are intended to become commercially available in the future) is that the better quality you provide, the less likely people will be willing to pay for them in the future!

There's more than one application out there that can capture audio from a website & add it to your itunes library... even Roxio's Toast (probably the world's most popular CD burning application) has jumped on the bandwagon: http://www.roxio.co.uk/eng/products/toast/titanium/overview.html

For this reason, I limit promotional mp3's to 128kbps...
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User profile for user: SeaDream
SeaDream Author
User level: Level 1
16 points

Mar 27, 2009 4:30 PM in response to noeqplease

*_To noeqplease_*
Do you think statements like this are helpful:

+<You do know how to import an audio file into Logic, yes? If you don't, I suggest you first learn to use your computer. "Macs for Dummies" is a good start>+

+<Reading the manual, please... this is a most basic function, found in all D.A.W.s>+

I'm probably old enough to be your grandmother, and am living in a country which is not my native one, without ready access to literature which I can read easily. I joined this Forum since understanding technical knowhow -for the first time in my life-in a foreign language proved too difficult.

Until this mail from you, I was over-the-moon with gratitude to the members of this forum who've NOT judged me, but have gone out of their way - painstakingly-to help.

If I'm willing to show my lack of knowledge and understanding in a very public manner simply because I DO want to be able to use my software properly, you should respect this and not capitalise on my weakness.

I looked for an 'Unhelpful' button to mark your mail. There wasn't one. So I read the _Apple Discussions Use Agreement_ and read:

+Be polite. Everyone should feel comfortable reading Submissions and participating in discussions. Apple will not tolerate flames or other inappropriate statements, material, or links. Most often, a "flame" is simply a statement that is taunting and thus arbitrarily inflammatory.+

I have been polite and VERY appreciative. Always. Kay.
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User profile for user: John Pursley
John Pursley
User level: Level 1
31 points

Mar 29, 2009 6:43 AM in response to SeaDream

SeaDream,

I don't think he meant anything harsh with the "Macs For Dummies" statement.
There is a whole series of books on a variety of products with that name. I have many of them.
They are some of the best "how to books" on the the market.
In-fact many user manuals are very poorly written thats why these books are so popular.
I am reading one right now called "Microsoft office for Dummies".
It explains things in laymen's terms where I can understand.
They are an excellent resource. They are all the same color in the book store black and yellow
paper back with the same titles "Something for dummies" it's there catch phrase.
Blessings!
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User profile for user: SeaDream
SeaDream Author
User level: Level 1
16 points

Mar 29, 2009 10:05 AM in response to John Pursley

Hi John - nice of you to answer ! I've not felt good about posting since 'his' mail.

Because I've been teaching non-native speakers English for years and am used to ALL sorts of language, I've developed a good instinct for nuances and I don't feel my assessment was false- sadly.

It's fairly obvious that one would read the manual first, and make ones's own experiments before posting questions here.

But it's a feature that everyday words take on a new meaning ( I already mentioned modulation and velocity in former posts) in this field of music production. So reading the manual is often confusing. ' Gain' for example. The manuals don't give me a clear idea what this means.

Thanks again, SeaDream/Kay.
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User profile for user: John Pursley
John Pursley
User level: Level 1
31 points

Mar 29, 2009 10:50 AM in response to SeaDream

Hi SeaDream,

Check this site out it has a bunch of pro app tutorials.
There are several Logic studio videos from 101 to advanced.
When you click on the view button of the one you like it will show you
free demo videos of many of there packages.
These are the best teaching tutorials that I have seen. They give you hands on training.
Also they have many sales that go on so sign up to be a member.
I think you will really enjoy the teachers.
I have learned allot of tricks from the free demos alone.

http://www.macprovideo.com/

Blessings!
John
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MP3 file size: how big can it be when listened to from a website ?

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