EX3 10bit? Final Cut 8bit?

Question

EX3 10bit? Final Cut 8bit?

Hello Everyone

I have recently filmed some green screen footage on Sony EX3. Which I'm assured by the Manufacturer is HD 4:2:2 10bit camera.

I have imported the footage to FCP via Media Transfer. However when I play out the footage for my model maker (Who is working on PC based Cinema 4D) in image sequence PNG (millions of colours)

The end result is only 8 bit frames not the required 10 bit.

Has anyone else encountered a similar problem or any idea how to get my footage PNG in 10 bit quality?

Thanks for your help

Jeff

Mac Quad, Mac OS X (10.5.6), FCPstudio2

Posted on Apr 9, 2009 4:00 AM

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Answer 1

Andy Mees

Level 6

12,610 points

Apr 9, 2009 4:08 AM in response to pirateproducer

+I have recently filmed some green screen footage on Sony EX3. Which I'm assured by the Manufacturer is HD 4:2:2 10bit camera.+

You've been assured wrong Jeff, or rather you have misunderstood. The camera processes the image at 4:2:2 10 bit and if you capture that image via the camera live to a suitable recording medium.device then you'll enjoy the full glory of that imaging, but if you shot to the XDCAM EX codec and then ingested then the footage then it is very definitely 4:2:0 8 bit.

You can export your footage as 10 bit but it will never contain those bits that were not recorded.

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Answer 2

Apr 9, 2009 7:27 AM in response to Andy Mees

Dear Andy

Firstly many thanks for your speedy reply and to the point information. To be honest it is as I suspected, however I was rather confused by this reply from Sony:

Dear Mr Leahy,
Thank you for your email.
The PMW-EX3 is 10 bits (interlaced) or 20 bits (progressive) camera. The transfer of the material from your PMW-EX3 to your computer is without any loss. The fact that it outputs 8 bit images, might related to the specifications of your computer or your software.
Unfortunately the operation information you are asking is related to the functionality of FCP. We, as Sony PrimeSupport, can only give you information about the functionality and operation of the PMW-EX3. For information about the export options in FCP I have to ask you to contact Apple.

Best Regards,
Frank Sijm
Sony PrimeSupport Engineer
B2B service and support

However I shall give up trying to get 10 bits out of current footage, so thanks for info. Once we start the project we intend to film the green screen straight onto the Mac Pro. I guess it’s a little cheeky but my partner and I were wondering what codec workflow you would recommend for 10 bit HD?

Bearing in mind that I am working FCP (mac) & the models are Cimema 4D on AE (PC). We’ve been informed that the best codec’s are AVID.
• Mac_AvidCodecsLE.zip
codecHowever I’m having difficulty connecting these downloaded codecs to FCP? Do they have to be dragged into Compressor and files burnt? None of the recommended Avid codec’s appear in FCP?

Anyway any help and advice much appreciated. And thanks again for putting us straight. Yours Jeff

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Answer 3

Z1User

Level 4

1,085 points

Apr 9, 2009 8:41 AM in response to pirateproducer

Yes the EX cameras can spit out a 10 bit HD-SDI signal and as Andy mentioned you can record it to whatever you choose. My experience is to capture this signal to Pro Rez. I'm not sure what is the best workflow to your PC needs will be but capturing to Pro Rez is a very good choice for acquisition.

Good Luck
Z1

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Answer 4

Apr 9, 2009 9:18 AM in response to pirateproducer

According to the Sony spec sheet:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-xdcamexsite/cat-broadcastcameras/product-PMWE X3/

the recording is MPEG-2 , 4:2:0 Long GOP, which is 8bit. If you've recorded the image to a card, it's 8bit. It's also heavily compressed, so "The transfer of the material from your PMW-EX3 to your computer is without any loss. " should read "The transfer of the material from your PMW-EX3 to your computer is without any further loss. "

The mention of 20bit is totally erroneous. Not least due to the S/N Ratio 54 dB (Y-typical), spec. 54db is about 9bit precision. 20bit precision would imply an impossible 120db SNR.

The HD-SDI outputs may offer 10bit output, but that would have to be measured to know if the image information actually has 10bit precision. WIthout such measurement one cannot say either way on that. Obviously, that would have to be for live playback rather than that of recorded media because the recording codec is 8bit.

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Answer 5

Apr 9, 2009 9:42 AM in response to pirateproducer

Cheers for your comments guys. I’m glad I’m not the only one who found Sony’s reply somewhat confusing. However I think we can record 10 bit from the EX3 as long as we avoid the camera’s own compression and my model maker believes the EX3 could be a good choice for filming actors in green screen and transferring to Cinema 4D via After Effects.

However he doesn’t believe the Pro Rez is a good solution for his PC? He would prefer Avid codec’s, QuickTime, to play on his computer.

As I’m providing Image Sequences I’m not certain why? Especially as the final project will be edited on FCP, as expert interviews, photos etc will all stay in FCP. And the problem to date appears to be the EX3 compression not FCP.

But I understand that getting Live actors in Virtual models is a difficult process and making life as easy as possible of him would be beneficial.

Again, many thanks to you all for your help.

Yours Jeff

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Answer 6

Apr 9, 2009 9:48 AM in response to pirateproducer

Yes, you'd have to record direct to a computer over HD-SDI, and preferably record that uncompressed, although prores is also 10bit and ok. You can download a pc prores playback codec, which would work. After Effects would also play back the prores if you have the codec installed. I don't see too much need to go to still sequences.

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