Word doc import/export and line spacing differences with Pages '09

budjames wrote:
Why can't Apple build a proper line spacing function into Pages so it is more compatible with Word? If they are touting compatibility, they need to make a disclaimer in their advertising as only simple documents seem to work without issues.

The documents published by Apple never claim that Pages offer a perfect compatibility.
Pages is not designed to be a replacement of Word. It's just designed to offer you the ability to read documents wriiten in Word or to send to Word users documents which they may read.
Apple's engineers have more useful tasks than doing reverse engineering to be able to reproduce Word behavior.
If you want perfect compatibility, use Word !

Yvan KOENIG (from FRANCE lundi 20 avril 2009 14:01:24)

many Word documents have subtle line spacing before or after paragraphs and/or different size fonts in the document that affects line spacing.

Microsoft makes all sorts of "subtle" alterations, many of which are intentionally proprietary. Given that, I fail to see how it's Apple's fault that a translated document fails to mimic these subtleties in all respects. If an absolutely faithful reproduction is required, then you need to use the application that produced the document in the first place.

In this case I will stand up for Apple.

The reason that you get different line spacing when you open up documents in Windows/MsOffice is because as usual Microsoft has a got a screwed up fudge in the way it does line spacing. Just as it has screwed up the way fonts are displayed in Windows. This has made a mess of the way browsers show web pages because there is the standards way and there is the Microsoft way. Guess which way is accurate.

They toss accuracy for a fudge that makes users think it looks better. They are like the shoe salesman who sells more women's shoes if he puts all the large sizes in boxes 2 sizes down.

Apple can't control the way Windows displays fonts anymore than Microsoft controls the way Apple displays them. Personally I go for accuracy and not have to allow for the unknowable variation of a developer who has managed to mess up just about everything they have ever touched. Sometimes deliberately, mostly because they don't know better, or care.

Peter

Bud,

It seems that there is incompatibility in the before and after spacing (Ctrl + 0 in Word for Windows adds 12 points, if I remember correctly).

Since you mention a .doc file, it makes me think you have a Word 2003 or earlier format. I have a couple of suggestions:
1. If you have access to Word 2007 or Word 2008 for Mac, try saving in .docx. Basically, a .docx is compliant with Office Open XML, the ECMA standard that is the basis for the document formats in Microsoft Office 2007 and Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac.

[Note: The Office Open XML ECMA standard, or OOXML is a source of polemic since it was donated by Microsoft and competes with Open Document Format, or ODF. You can find more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OfficeOpen_XML#Implementations_of_new_2008version
and Microsoft has stated they'll support the newer standard and retrofit Office 2007. Let's hope they do the same for Office 2008 for Mac and that Apple picks up as well with an upgrade for Pages '09 or in Pages '10]

2. If the above does not work, I would suggest reporting this to Apple. This would indicate a compatibility problem in Office Open XML compliance, which should be independent of Word itself. A way to support this claim would be to test it in another word processor that adds space before and after a paragraph and that supports OOXML, which I think would be too much 🙂 I would not bother reporting it for a Word 2003 format because it is proprietary.

Hope it helps.

If you doesn't know that every translation process imply loss of features you are simply dreaming.

I'm not arrogant. I explain what is a logical feature.
The job of Apple engineers is not reverse engineering Microsoft components to mimic every feature of programs which are widely used but which are certainly not the "tables of law". Is it surprising in a company which claims "think different" ?

Re-read Apple litterature. You will not find it claiming that iWork components will give perfect compatibility.
They just states that you may open Word, Excel or PowerPoint documents and that you may export Word, Excel or PowerPoint documents.
If you assumed that the process would be perfect, it's only your problem. Apple never wrote such a thing.

Apple wrote something and, if you read what you where hoping to get it's not Apple's problem.
In a world where companies know how to write announcements, customers must learn how to read these announcements.

I already wrote several times that:
_program A opens program B's documents_
means:
_program A is able to open several documents issued from program B with some approximations._

Yvan KOENIG (from FRANCE mardi 21 avril 2009 22:17:16)

Yvan,

I have heard Apple employees repeatedly state that Pages and Numbers are full substitutes for Word and Excel. They also said that there was no problem saving and transferring between iWork and MsOffice.

I have had to bite my tongue and not warn the customer because that would spoil the "positive" everything-is-just-grand story being told in Apple Stores.

Despite my speaking to the Apple employees privately about some of the issues, they still spin the same story with the next customer.

Peter

I heard so many foolish things from Apple employees that I have a clear point of view:
Apple employees may say this or that. It's not my problem because what they say is not the official Apple statement.
_The only serious information is the one printed in Apple documents._

Just a sample:
According to what some employees say, AppleWorks 6 is not supported by macOs 10.5 or by macIntel machines.
Happily, I am using the AppleWorks under 10.5.6 on my iMac intel inside (when it is here).

Yvan KOENIG (from FRANCE mercredi 22 avril 2009 12:47:10)

Yvan,

I don't get to go to the Apple employees training meetings, which may or may not just consist of wearing the T-Shirt the right way round and the swing tag facing out, but they are the face of Apple. The only ones that will actually talk to the people who come here for advice, after buying Apple's computers and software based on what they were told.

Their supervisors do not correct any misstatements and they repeat the same line even after being corrected and privately agreeing with me.

Seems to me the excuses are just that and no-one is really interested in accurate answers that might frighten off the punters.

Meeting quotas seems to be the extent of any obligations. I have 3 years of paid Apple support ahead of me. 3 years of not getting straight answers to any hard questions I have asked so far.

Peter

.docx files don't work either, unfortunately. This has become a major problem for me, as I often have to transfer reports back and forth between Word and Pages. Line spacing, word wrapping for tables, and page margins all contribute to making something that actually is NOT readable at all. OpenOffice does an even worse job than Pages, complicated documents are completely illegible.

Microsoft Office is by nature an evil and unintelligent program - but if Apple preaches compatibility, we should be able to count on them to pick up Microsoft's slack. I don't believe that "this isn't their job." Apples job is to make their programs and hardware make my life and job easy and happy. They've done tremendously well - iWork is amazing - except for this one little issue.

What may I tell you?

Some Apple employees are ignorant about some Apple products.

Sometimes, some recognize that they are ignorant upon one product and search for the one who know. Other choose to respond this or that just to speak.

It's the same in every job.

There are bad lawyers, bad doctors, bad priests, bad potters … even bad presidents and I even know beings saying that they are bad popes.

It's life.

Yvan KOENIG (from FRANCE lundi 8 juin 2009 20:53:30)

Yvan,

They can not both use ignorance as an excuse and boast the title of Apple Genius.

They also can not use ignorance as an excuse once they have been told (more than once).

You are very unforgiving of Users' ignorance, how come you are so forgiving of the Apple employees whose job it is to properly familiarise themselves with their company's products and who are given extensive training by Apple?

Peter