Paragraph Shading and Borders

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Level 1

0 points

Paragraph Shading and Borders

Why don't the paragraph borders match the paragraph fill area? Is there some way to make the paragraph fill match the paragraph indents? There doesn't seem to be a lot of control in this regard...

iMac (2007), Mac OS X (10.5.2), Mmm... Mac good...

Posted on May 9, 2009 1:04 PM

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Answer 1

May 9, 2009 2:59 PM in response to GMerriment

G,

Vertically the Borders and the Fill seem to match, but not horizontally. It looks like a design oversight to me. I'd like to hear from anyone who knows why the horizontal fill extent shouldn't match the horizontal border allowance. I think you are justified in giving Apple some feedback on this issue. Use the feedback form that can be accessed from the Pages menu.

Jerry

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Answer 2

Brie Fly

Level 5

7,925 points

May 9, 2009 3:19 PM in response to GMerriment

I'm not entirely sure I get what you're asking. If you want your paragraph to look like it's inside a colored box, insert a shape, give it the fill you want, then type (or copy/paste) your text into the shape.

If you want only your entered text highlighted, choose (select) your target text, then apply a background color from the toolbar above the ruler. The fill is applied to the text only (respecting any paragraph indents). Alternatively, from the Text Inspector, use "character fill" instead of "paragraph fill".

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Answer 3

GMerriment Author

Level 1

0 points

May 9, 2009 3:24 PM in response to Brie Fly

See, this solution is way too complicated. I want to make a paragraph style with shading and a border, not clutter my document with objects.

For example, suppose I want to have "Author's Notes" in a 5" wide gray box with a thin border on top and bottom. I don't want to have to add a text box every time I have an Author's Note to add; I want to be able to select an "Author's Notes" style and have my paragraph(s) formatted appropriately.

Currently, if I select a paragraph and set its margins to make it 5" wide, the paragraph shading will remain at the full page width with no way to change it. To make matters worse, if I also try to add a border to the paragraph, the border dimensions don't match the shading dimensions.

Considering that MS Word has had this functionality down pat since Office 2000, Pages is a little behind.

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Answer 4

KOENIG Yvan

Level 8

41,819 points

May 10, 2009 7:55 AM in response to GMerriment

GMerriment wrote:
Considering that MS Word has had this functionality down pat since Office 2000, Pages is a little behind.

Pages is not 'before' or 'behind', it is different.

Exactly as some one with blond hair is not 'before' or 'behind' some one with brown hair (except, of course, if we are speaking of Marylin Monroe).

Yvan KOENIG (from FRANCE dimanche 10 mai 2009 16:54:59)

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Answer 5

KOENIG Yvan

Level 8

41,819 points

May 10, 2009 8:10 AM in response to GMerriment

A game has rules.
If you don't respect the rules you are fired.

It's the same with Pages.

A paragraph is … a paragraph, not one of your dreams.

In fact, what you want to do is easy to do.

The top and bottom borders aren't paragraph attributes so, they apply to the text itself.

Paragraph background logically apply to the entire paragraph which means the page width.

When you want a backgound applying only to the true text, use "Character background".

Shadow doesn't apply to a paragraph but to a character.

Be consistent with the used objects and you will get consistent results.

Yvan KOENIG (from FRANCE dimanche 10 mai 2009 17:10:40)

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Answer 6

May 10, 2009 9:14 AM in response to GMerriment

GMerriment,

You have some valid points, particularly with the inconsistent way Pages interprets the bounds of a paragraph.

The paragraph fill does extend to the margins, as does a full border, but top and bottom rules only stretch across the indented width. There should be ways of resetting the behavior as there is in Indesign, QuarkXPress and Word.

Using the Character Background Fill creates another problem in that it only covers the text area but extends into the After Paragraph spacing, and not in the Before Paragraph spacing. So the whole looks unbalanced being neither one nor the other.

All these are results of decisions made by the programmers.

Tell Apple:

+Menu > Pages > Provide Pages Feedback+

Peter

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Answer 7

GMerriment Author

Level 1

0 points

May 10, 2009 3:22 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

If a useful feature is attempted to be included in a product, and it is not implemented in a consistent or useful manner, the product attempting to include it is behind any product that successfully implements that functionality.

If a blonde scores a 60% on a quiz, and a brunette scores 90%, the blonde is behind the brunette.

Hair color has nothing to do with performance, and platform shouldn't either. Just because Pages is on a Mac doesn't mean it can be a worse product than similar offerings on Windows and get away with being "different".

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Answer 8

GMerriment Author

Level 1

0 points

May 10, 2009 3:24 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

I will be reporting feedback. This seems like a bug and not a "difference". When the paragraph bounds are interpreted differently by different features, with inconsistent and unhelpful results, that says "bug" to me.

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Answer 9

GMerriment Author

Level 1

0 points

May 10, 2009 3:34 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

A game has rules.
If you don't respect the rules you are fired.

Okay, so basically what you're saying is that if I don't like the way Pages works I don't get to use it. Gotcha.

What I'm saying is that the option to set a border, or shading, or any other text to apply to the whole paragraph (or page!) instead of the text has been in Word since before 2000, and Pages should by this iteration be doing it well.

And before you say that Pages doesn't need to do whatever Word does, consider if you took that approach to fonts. Users don't need advanced formatting! They can just use TEXTEDIT.

Fail.

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Answer 10

May 10, 2009 5:42 PM in response to GMerriment

Hey don't bag TextEdit, it can do a lot, if Apple would only put more of the features in the menus.

btw have a look at the free *iText Express 08* it is a super version of TextEdit.

Peter

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Answer 11

May 10, 2009 6:43 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Yvan,

Here's the example that doesn't make sense to me:

Why the white edges inside the border?

Jerry

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Answer 12

KOENIG Yvan

Level 8

41,819 points

May 11, 2009 10:45 AM in response to Jerrold Green1

Hi Jerrold

From my point of view, you found THE bugged feature.
I have no explanation except a bug for this behavior.

Yvan KOENIG (from FRANCE lundi 11 mai 2009 19:45:07)

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Answer 13

May 11, 2009 11:09 AM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Yvan,

That was the point of my original response to the post -- it looks like a bug and should be reported. It is the same in Pages 08 and Pages 09.

Regards,

Jerry

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Answer 14

KOENIG Yvan

Level 8

41,819 points

May 11, 2009 12:17 PM in response to Jerrold Green1

Hello Jerrold

When I entered this thread, the OP already explained that he was annoyed by the behavior of the top and bottom borders. He was not writing about the complete rectangle so I concentrated on its problem.

I just read your first message and sure, you encountered an oddity.

I'm really busy and have already several reports awaiting. When I will have time, I will complete the serie 😉

Yvan KOENIG (from FRANCE lundi 11 mai 2009 21:17:40)

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Answer 15

May 11, 2009 12:31 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Yvan,

I was hoping that you would send a report. I would call the issue important, but not urgent, so whenever you get a chance to make the report will be good.

Jerry

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