Midi drum track - cymbals get cut off - sustain issue?

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Midi drum track - cymbals get cut off - sustain issue?

Hi all,

I've scouted the forums and not been able to find an answer to this. I'm new to Logic so when replying please assume no prior knowledge on my part! 🙂

I've recorded some drum tracks via an electronic midi drum kit. I have all the notes in my piano roll, and I've demixed the track so I now have a tack for each drum etc.

The problem is with the cymbals... each new note cuts out the sustain of previous note. It's really noticeable when there are two consecutive notes, where one is at high velocity and the next is at low velocity... it should sound like a nice groove with plenty of accents but it just sounds jumpy and synthetic as the velocity jumps up and down and each hit cuts off the last. I've made a sh!tty graphic so you can kind of see what I mean:

http://www.coleridgeproductions.com/drum.jpg

Is it possible to force a note to sustain even when a new note on the same piano roll key interupts it, so that they kind of double up?

Thanks in advance!

Macbook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.7)

Posted on May 23, 2009 5:39 AM

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Answer 1

Eriksimon

Level 6

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May 23, 2009 6:10 AM in response to rubberglover

This will not work. It is the same for every (acoustic) instrument: if you play the same note it will replace the previously played note; even on a Piano with the pedal up this is so.
What you could do to accomplish this is to create a duplicate identical cymbal in another slot (C2?), select all the soft notes and move them to this new position. If a real drummer wanted this, he'd need two separate identical cymbals as well.

regards, Erik.

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Answer 2

rubberglover Author

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May 23, 2009 6:46 AM in response to Eriksimon

Thanks for the reply... That's exactly what I've done as a hacked solution... it works but it's a real pain! It's odd that it's not possible really - I used to use cubase with a soundblaster live back in the day and I had a live drums sound font that just seemed to work in this way, so I thought it might be possible. I mean if you hit a real cymbal and then hit it again at a different velocity, the vibrations of the first hit do not immediately disappear... they are influenced of course but they are still there. It's a real shame you can't emulate this.

I guess it makes sense for keys instruments but it's a real problem if you're trying to emulate real sounding drums with midi. Ah well... guess I'll carry on moving every other hit onto a different key - it's just a bit of a ball ache to do this on a song that's 7 minutes long with plenty of cymbals and open hi-hats! Thanks anyway... 🙂

Message was edited by: rubberglover

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Answer 3

May 24, 2009 11:09 AM in response to rubberglover

If the cymbals are set to one shot mode (they play the whole sample when the note on is received regardless of the timing of the note off) then the first cymbal sound will play out under the newly initiated note with no noticeable cutoff.

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Answer 4

Eriksimon

Level 6

15,428 points

May 24, 2009 12:19 PM in response to Data Stream Studio

You're quite right. I somehow assumed it was about Ultrabeat, that doesn't 'do' one shot mode; but in an EXS24 drumkit you can set the sample(s) of the cymbal to one shot. Ride cymbals are mostly not set to one shot in the preset kits:

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Answer 5

rubberglover Author

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May 26, 2009 5:30 AM in response to Eriksimon

Brilliant! Thanks so much for this info... I've mixed the first track using the duplicated sample technique mentioned above but I'll have a play with this on the next track. So presumably I just have to use the EX24 top drive the preset kit instead of ultrabeat yeah? I made some adjustments to the 'dry studio kit' using ultra beat (a few pitch adjustments and adjusted the attack on pretty much all the samples) - I've not really used EX24 yet but I'm guessing I can us it to make pretty much the same set of adjustments?

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Answer 6

Eriksimon

Level 6

15,428 points

May 27, 2009 10:48 AM in response to rubberglover

rubberglover wrote:
Brilliant! Thanks so much for this info... I've mixed the first track using the duplicated sample technique mentioned above but I'll have a play with this on the next track. So presumably I just have to use the EX24 top drive the preset kit instead of ultrabeat yeah?

That is right.

I made some adjustments to the 'dry studio kit' using ultra beat (a few pitch adjustments and adjusted the attack on pretty much all the samples) - I've not really used EX24 yet but I'm guessing I can us it to make pretty much the same set of adjustments?

Yes and no. The EXS24 is an allround sampler, Ultrabeat is a *Drum Synth* with oscillators that can also use samples. EXS24 has a lot of tweakable parameters but works only with samples, and has no step sequencer feature. There is a chapter on the EXS in the Logic Studio Instruments and Effects documentation.

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