Can't reconnect to hidden WPA2 network

Question

Level 1

8 points

Can't reconnect to hidden WPA2 network

I have been piloting a mobile application for my hospital's information system and have been frustrated by the iPhone and iPod touch's inability to remember the network from day to day. The SSID is hidden and it is WPA2 encrypted for security. Some days I can log in; most days I can't. We have not found this to happen with Blackberry's, Samsungs or portable computers. Unless Apple fixes this problem (which clearly appears limited to iPhones and Touches), it is highly likely that our hospital will strongly discourage the several hundred physicians from purchasing iPhones or using the iPod Touch for their next PDA. I have not been able to find a workaround. I can tell the network is there - using WIFI Finder documents the network signal, but the devices don't connect.

I suspect this issue will become even more acute as more business networks provide mobile access.

iPod Touch, Windows XP Pro

Posted on May 28, 2009 9:00 AM

Reply

Answer 1

A A P L

Level 7

21,764 points

May 28, 2009 11:49 AM in response to HowardNad

So, is this a question or just a threat to Apple that your hospital won't use iPhones?
I have a hidden SSID here, using WPA2 Enterprise and one hidden, WPA2 personal (for testing) and both work fine.
What have you tried to resolve this so far?
Let's approach it like a problem and see what happens.

Scott

Reply

Answer 2

luvlabs

Level 4

3,620 points

May 28, 2009 4:50 PM in response to HowardNad

My experience has been that iPod touches are not particularly fond of networks that do not broadcast their names. They do not remember them and therefore you have to log back onto the network each time you turn your iPod on.

Hiding a network name does nothing for security so why do it? I think a physician uprising will get the IT people off their butts and broadcast the network name. My hospital experience has always been that the docs wield all of the power.

Reply

Answer 3

A A P L

Level 7

21,764 points

May 28, 2009 5:41 PM in response to luvlabs

Like I said, I have two work and one home network with hidden SSIDs and they work fine.
It's not that simple of an answer.
There are amy variables in networking, and while it's sometimes easy to fix, other times it's not.

Does your iPod/iPhone hold on to other networks and join automatically?

Reply

Answer 4

HowardNad Author

Level 1

8 points

May 29, 2009 6:50 PM in response to A A P L

I have no problem connecting to any network that broadcasts its SSID. At home and at other's houses with wireless, I have no problem automatically connecting - and use WPA2 for security. And, I can "see" that there's network signal, using WIFI Finder. Even when I type in the SSID of the hospital network, but use an incorrect password, the response if "Cannot find [network name]" rather than "cannot connect". My concern is that, if an enterprise wants to keep its SSID hidden, this defect could become problematic since many of our health care applications are being deployed to smartphones at the same time that confidentiality issues are very strong. I can't understand why the Touch "forgets" the network name after it's been programmed in and worked for a short while.

Reply

Answer 5

HowardNad Author

Level 1

8 points

May 29, 2009 6:56 PM in response to A A P L

Our hospital uses MAC filtering to limit access to the network. I assume the MAC address on the iPod Touch does not change - but could this be an issue? From one day to the next, I couldn't connect. When re-entering the access information, I could again connect (even with placing the unit in standby or turning it off and on), but when I lost contact with the network, it occurred in the middle of using the Touch - i.e. I was connected one minute then dropped, and couldn't re-access the network. Yet, the network was working because my colleague's portable computer remained connected. Any ideas?

Reply

Answer 6

Olen

Level 1

4 points

May 31, 2009 7:52 PM in response to HowardNad

I have very similar experience in my office with the Wifi network (no SSID and WPA2). I continually have to relogin to the network. I have no issues with other Wifi networks.

Hopefully there is an answer out there somewhere

Reply

Answer 7

luvlabs

Level 4

3,620 points

Jun 1, 2009 7:13 AM in response to HowardNad

AAPL claims he has no problems with hidden networks but my experience has been the opposite. Most people find that they have to constantly reenter their password when logging back into a network with a hidden name. Unhiding the name corrects the problem. I can't explain the difference.

I will tell you that both the network name and the password are case sensitive. So if the SSID is Hospital1 and you type in hospital1, if won't be found.

In your second post, the fact that the network has MAC address filtering on it as well was somewhat telling. Of course, if that is what is going on, you had to register you iPod with the IT department so that your MAC address (which doesn't change) could be added to the network allowed list. Correct? If not, I really wonder about your IT department and how they are implementing this.

Honestly, I would hand the IT department your touch and let them play around with it until they come up with a solution. This solution will also apply to iPhones on WiFi as well.

Reply

Answer 8

luvlabs

Level 4

3,620 points

Jun 1, 2009 7:16 AM in response to Olen

Your experience seems to be a common problem - no network name broadcast, the touch "forgets" the network. AAPL has had the opposite experience.

You might want to ask your network people why they don't broadcast the name. It's not like it is protecting the network from anything as it can still be detected.

Reply

Answer 9

A A P L

Level 7

21,764 points

Jun 1, 2009 7:26 PM in response to HowardNad

No, a MAC addy is burned in the hardware.
Not sure Howard, I've had no issues, but my colleague in NY said the new setup there is causing this issue.
The thing that's odd is it's the same setup - only different hardware on the network side.
SO, there may be an issue with some setups and some configurations.

And a PS for "luvlabs": I don't "claim" anything, I'm stating my experience as it stands.

Reply

Answer 10

luvlabs

Level 4

3,620 points

Jun 2, 2009 6:52 AM in response to A A P L

AAPL,

Sorry, I didn't really mean it as "claims". I should have stated that your experience has been different with this issue.

I find that it is odd that it works with some and doesn't work with others. Maybe somebody will nail it down.

Reply

Answer 11

A A P L

Level 7

21,764 points

Jun 2, 2009 11:28 AM in response to luvlabs

It is odd, and that's why it's hard to fix.
My buddy in NY is still having issues, so it's real, but hopefully will get fixed.
Hidden SSIDs are a joke anyway, so I recommend stopping that practice - where I have any influence.

Scott

Reply

Answer 12

HowardNad Author

Level 1

8 points

Jun 5, 2009 11:37 AM in response to A A P L

Scott:

I've been trying to troubleshoot this issue and have found the behavoir odd. For several hours, I had no trouble reconnecting out of standby mode. Then, I couldn't connect, but if I typed in the SSID, without the password (the network administrators don't want users to know the password, but install it directly on their smartphone/computer device), after reporting "Unable to connect", actually does connect. Unfortunately, the Touch then REMEMBERS the network name, but forgets the password (probably because when I attempt to connect without the password, it REMEMBERS that attempt). I have subsequently tried using a Blackberry and Samsung phones to access the hospital network and have been able to connect every time - at the same times as the Touch failed. So, there's something quirky in the Touch software specifically as it relates to this. Perhaps a subsequent iteration of the software will help. I will pass of your suggestion about the uselessness of hiding the SSID of the network, but enterprise network administators are not reknown for their flexibility.

Howard

Reply

Answer 13

A A P L

Level 7

21,764 points

Jun 5, 2009 1:41 PM in response to HowardNad

Howard,

Since this post, I've been testing and querying others in my company, in different regions.
I have now seen this (once) and others have a number of complaints about this.
I am going to file a Bug Report with Apple.
I suggest others do this to, even though I have some more direct access.

You can send one here:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunesapp.html

*BR filed just now.

Reply

Answer 14

luvlabs

Level 4

3,620 points

Jun 5, 2009 1:49 PM in response to A A P L

Scott,

Could this be a gen1 vs. gen2 problem? You have a first generation touch, and Howard and I have second generation touches. Just wondering.

Roger

Reply

Answer 15

A A P L

Level 7

21,764 points

Jun 5, 2009 3:20 PM in response to luvlabs

I have a 3G iPhone as well.
Good idea, but we've got 1/2G Touches here as well as both iPhone models.
I've opened a case with Apple.
SO - you folks can now help me gather more data that WILL go to Apple.

I need:

What firmware version do you have on your Airport Extreme? (if applicable)
What channel is it set to, and what network types (b/g/n, g/n, etc.).

Thanks,
Scott

Reply