updating iMac DV+ "450" to system 10

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Level 1

19 points

updating iMac DV+ "450" to system 10

Hi there, I'm getting ready to upgrade my iMac to system 10. All this time I thought I couldn't upgrade, and I've been getting slowly updated out of existence, so I was pretty exicted to find out I can actually use system 10. I've read a lot on this forum and I think I have a handle on it, but I'd like to confirm few things before I actually push the button (and maybe see my computer go "boom").

I have the iMac DV+ 450MHz. I'm pretty sure it has a 20GB HD, although I can't find that info anywhere. It has 384MB of RAM, plus runs virtual memory with 385 MB (according to the system profiler thing). It has system 9.2.2. The firmware is upgraded to 4.1.9.

From a link in this forum, I found a copy of system 10.2 (within my budget, and also I saw some mentions that maybe my model won't take a later version, so I figured it was safe to start with). The DVD says eMac on it, but the paperwork says it is universal. I tested it out by booting up my mac off the DVD and it did start and was ready to install, so thus far I assume it is the proper software. I've backed up all my files and cleaned up my computer... so, am I ready to go?

One question I have is, I have seen people talk about partitioning their hard drives. Is this required for system 10? Is there a reason I should do it?

Is there anything else I need to do before I do the install? Is my computer going to choke and die, or will it be great to be back in the modern world again and have browsers that work? Thanks to anyone with suggestions.

Posted on Oct 27, 2005 12:54 PM

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Answer 1

Nick Holmes

Level 7

30,018 points

Oct 27, 2005 1:40 PM in response to Grace G.

The DVD says eMac on it, but the paperwork says it is universal.

No. You have an eMac disk that originally shipped with that model of computer. The eMac has a G4 processor, which has different requirements to those of a G3 iMac.

Maybe you will get lucky and it will work.

A lot of people have asked this question here so I decided to test this with a machine specific copy of Mac OS X 10.4 on a "reserve" G3 iMac. It installed, ran through the set up sequence as expected. It even went to auto update and took the system software up to Mac OS X 10.4.2.

Before I could say "What's all the fuss about" the computers drive started making very strange noises, the screen flickered black and the system locked up. On rebooting there were repeated kernel panics.

The machine works again after reinstalling the purchased boxed version of Mac OS X.

Save up a little more and buy a real retail boxed copy. Your 450 Mhz DV can run the latest and greatest.

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Answer 2

8 Ball

Level 2

355 points

Oct 27, 2005 4:14 PM in response to Nick Holmes

Hello, Nick! Wow... thanks for doing this test for us! ...8Ball

BTW, I gave you 5votes!

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Answer 3

Grace G. Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 27, 2005 4:51 PM in response to 8 Ball

either I'm going blind or I'm really confused... now I can't find the post that was here saying not to use the eMac software.

Well, here's what I bought: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Apple/6914337A/
You can see it says it's good for all the models listed. Based on that post saying not to use it, I called them and asked, and the tech I spoke to said there should be no problem, he says he uses it all the time and has no problems. I told him my model and he said it should be fine. I read him the description of the failed test (that now seems to be gone) and he said that sounded like the firmware was not updated first, and not a problem with the system software.

Anybody got anymore input, now I'm really nervous about trying it. Thanks.

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Answer 4

Grace G. Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 27, 2005 4:52 PM in response to Grace G.

oh duh, I just found the "view all" button...

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Answer 5

Rod Hagen

Level 7

32,000 points

Oct 27, 2005 5:06 PM in response to Grace G.

I doubt that Nick's problem involved firmware, Grace. He has a lot of experience with iMacs and his post implies that he had previosuly been running OSX on it anyway. Simply reinstalling from a boxed set wouldn't have fixed the problem if it was a firmware issue either.

A more likely explanation is that the drive had bad freespace fragmentation after the installation and upgrades, or that ancillary software also included on the disk caused a problem.

My bet is that you would probably be all right using the disc, but I'd certainly recommend getting a later, "full retail" version instead. I ran 10.2 on my own iMac 450 DV+ for a while, but I was amazed at the improvement when I went from this to Panther (10.3). Panther was MUCH more stable on this machine, and considerably faster, (with the same RAM and HD - yes the original drive was 20Gig - as yours) than Jaguar (10.2). As Nick says, there is nothing to prevent you going all the way to Tiger (10.4) on a DV+ if you wish.

Cheers

Rod

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Answer 6

Nick Holmes

Level 7

30,018 points

Oct 27, 2005 6:11 PM in response to Rod Hagen

OK. The skinny: iMac DVSE 400, 120 GB hard drive with 2 partitions. 1 GB RAM. Firmware was updated to 4f.1.9 when that version first showed up on Apple Software Updates, around the end of 2000 - early 2001.

Partition 1, Mac OS 9.2.2 and Mac OS X 10.3.9 both retail box installs. No 3rd party software or irreplacable personal stuff.

Partition 2, Blasting Test Area. Here is where I put the experimental installation of Mac OS X 10.4 from a disc shipped with a Mac Mini. As you previously read above, lots of problems...

I did this to get an idea of what might happen, after various opinions here which stated that it was: not possible / maybe possible / impossible.

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Answer 7

Grace G. Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 30, 2005 2:57 PM in response to Nick Holmes

ok everybody, thanks for all the advice. I still have a couple of questions.

1) when I do upgrade to system X, do I have to partition my hard drive first?

2) these eMac CDs being sold as universal software; I was looking around for a copy of 10.3, and these eMac CDs are being sold ALL over the place, as universal software. If it's not, and if it's illegal for people to resell the software, then how come the market seems to be just flooded with them? How come so many people are selling them and claiming they are universal software? And how come there hasn't been a huge uproar of people's machines being wrecked by the improper software being installed? Somebody mentioned above that the question gets asked on here a lot about the eMac software; well I can see why now, they are being pushed everywhere. Why is that?

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Answer 8

Nick Holmes

Level 7

30,018 points

Oct 30, 2005 3:27 PM in response to Grace G.

Hello again, Grace.

1. There is no need to partition, that decision is yours alone.

2. Not so sure about the discs in question being on sale "everywhere", OWC seems to be the main source of these machine specific discs.

As for the ethics of it all, the jury is still out.

There is a discussion on this currently, in the Level 4 area of these forums.

Somebody mentioned above that the question gets asked on here a lot about the eMac software...

That was me. It's not just eMac discs that are being sold, I have also seen iBookG4 and iMac G4 discs being offered as "universal installers" on the OWC site.

Whatever. The general consensus is, and has been for years: - Mac OS Installer Discs that ship with a computer are model specific and will not work correctly, or at all, when used with a machine for which they are not designed.

Please note that OWC has a "no refund on opened software packages" policy. If the product then fails to live up to your expectations, you are stuck with it and your money is wasted.

Another thread about this
The only reliable course of action is to purchase a retail boxed version of the operating system.

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Answer 9

Grace G. Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 30, 2005 6:07 PM in response to Nick Holmes

well, I'm aware that I got screwed over by OWC (found them from a link on this board, and like an idiot thought that meant they were reputable). I'm just curious about all these eMac Cds out there. There's a ton of them on eBay as well, and when I searched a couple search engines for 10.3 software, got whole lists of these eMac disks for sale. Where the heck are they all coming from (and what happened to the eMac they all belong to)? How can companies like OWC keep selling them if it's illegal? Why doesn't Apply do something about it?

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Answer 10

dreed2

Level 7

25,730 points

Oct 30, 2005 7:12 PM in response to Grace G.

Maybe you should sue someone.

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Answer 11

Grace G. Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 31, 2005 8:33 AM in response to dreed2

gee thanks, that's a really helpful contribution to this discussion.

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Answer 12

Nov 4, 2005 11:13 PM in response to Grace G.

I'm writing this on an iMac 450 DV+ running 10.3.8 with no problems (10.3 will run faster than 10.2- I'm not sure about Tiger). My experience with using system specific restore disks is mixed- sometimes they work on other models, sometimes they don't. i would avoid them in any case. The original full install disks ussally have a big "X" on them, with the system rerstore disks are gray.

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Answer 13

Grace G. Author

Level 1

19 points

Nov 5, 2005 10:12 AM in response to Steve Fredericks

thanks for the info. I decided not to take the chance, as this is my only computer and I can't afford for anything to go wrong. So I'm just going to wait till I can afford 10.3, since everyone says that runs better anyway.

I'd still like to know why there are so many eMac discs being sold as universal software, if anyone has a clue.

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Answer 14

Nov 8, 2005 5:49 PM in response to Grace G.

"I'd still like to know why there are so many eMac discs being sold as universal software, if anyone has a clue."
Maybe a user(s) in one of the eMac Forums may have an answer for ya.

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Answer 15

Rod Hagen

Level 7

32,000 points

Nov 8, 2005 6:26 PM in response to Grace G.

I'd still like to know why there are so many eMac discs being sold as universal software, if anyone has a clue.

My guess would be that that now the eMac has been discontinued for public consumption there was a surplus of these disks still in stock, that they have dispensed with to third parties. Maybe they got caught with too many versions of earlier versions when Tiger came out too.

Cheers

Rod

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