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tomagion Author

Level 1

9 points

iphone 3.0 Update + Slow Backup Process - Why Design the Backup like that??

Hi All,

I'm hoping one of Apple's staff will respond to this post. I'm sorry it is long and rambling, but the interesting stuff is at the bottom, so stay with me...please. And yes I'm a bit frustrated because my lovely iPhone has now been tied up for 9+ hours... not a good user experience.

This post is really about the backup process itunes initiates whenever I attempt to sync my iphone. I've never yet seen itunes get to the end of the backup. After the first 6 hours I get board and stop the process. iTunes is installed on Vista 64.

Well last night I downloaded Itunes 3.0 update and kicked off the upgrade process in iTunes. All was well (and at the time of writing I guess still is). The backup kicked off at 21:54 on 17 June. It is now 8:11 on 18 June and the backup is still going. The progress bar is still increasing (no x available to cancel) and I've the folder location in open in Windows Explorer. Last time I looked the backup folder contained some 21,000+ files. 1st file plist.status was written at 21:54. iTunes backup is still posting files to this folder!!!

Using some pretty basic Windows Tools to see what was going on I found out the following.

Apple backup uses 3 processes, one a Windows Service called AppleMobileDeviceService.exe. Another process called AppleMobileDeviceHelper.exe and AppleMobileBackup.exe. They are all network enabled. AppleMobileDeviceService is the hub and listens on port 27015. It 'talks' to the other two services on various & variable port range in the TCP/IP stack.

Using Windows Performance Monitor I can see that the TCP conversation going on between AppleMobileDeviceService & AppleMobileBackup is running at between 9,000,000 Bytes a Minute (min) and 14,000,000 Bytes a Minute (max). That is 1.2 Megabits per Second (min) & 1.86 Megabits per Second (max). That too me is very slow when the USB 2.0 interface its connected to has a capacity of up to 480Mbits per second.

It occurs to me that the methodolgy Apple's Devs have chosen for the backup process appears to be incredibly flawed.

I can't test whether the backup is also using compression, although I hope so because of the 21,000+ files (and climbing) in the backup folder to date they only add up to 200MBytes. My iPhone has 7 of its 8GBytes used, so I could be in for a very long haul before I get my updated iPhone 3.0 software.

Apple, please this isn't a dig, I know I've got Windows on the desk (its my day job)but I love my iPhone and AppleTV.

Can you ask your Devs to explain why they chose to use such a slow methodology to underpin the iPhone backup service. Or, is it that the potential high speed backup that is possibel over TCP/IP is just very broken?

Lastly, when is Apple going to fix this, because this backup thing is very broken and giving your customers an incredibly poor user experience.

Anyway, hope this was a little bit informative for those suffering the same trying to get their iPhone upgraded to 3.0.

Thanks

Pete.

handcrafted+dell, w7+vista+2008

Posted on Jun 18, 2009 12:41 AM

80 replies

Jun 18, 2009 8:22 PM in response to tomagion

On hour #3 here, tried everything mentioned in this thread but not luck. I cant believe this update was released when there are so many glaring and frustrating issues. Apple should have worked out the kinks first. Most of us are not computer or technology experts, we just want to use the **** phone. This issue plus the battery life issue plus the fact they made MMS such a big part of the selling point for 3.O and it isnt even available for AT&T customers when Apple made AT&T the main provider??!!! I love Apple products when they work but I have to admit I am VERY frustrated with them right now

dwdyer

Level 1

0 points

Jun 18, 2009 9:00 PM in response to tomagion

I've suffered from slow backup times for ages. My phone generally takes an hour to back up. 8GB model, about 7GB of stuff. Vista 32 bit, Windows 7 64 bit, same story. I was able to get 3.0 installed, and I was hoping, hoping, it would be fixed.

But it wasn't. The potential solution of "delete all your photos and apps that keep data around" -- thats insane. Of course backups are going to go faster if you have less data to back up.

The first post here made me think to check the resource monitor, and sure enough, there's network activity but at the paltry rate of about 400,000 B/sec. Starts high, then slows down to about 330,000, now halfway through it's down to 300,000. AppleMobileDeviceService sending and AppleMobileBackup receiving. All over IPv4 loopback, so I"d HOPE that's not going to my hub and back.

480Mbps theoretical would be about 48MB/s -- consider that you'll probably never see about half that, halve it again just to be cynical, and that's still 3x more throughput than I'm seeing here. Granted, there's some stuff on the bus. Killing that stuff (except KB/mouse and couple hubs) makes no difference. FIrewall status shows unrestricted.

Moving to an "on the computer" USB port -- no gain.
Deleting my backup folder and starting from scratch -- no gain.

There's still stuff I want to check -- like if the folders are monitored for search or backup. But this is just painful.

Daiya

Level 4

1,666 points

Jun 18, 2009 9:58 PM in response to tomagion

Going on two hours with my backup. It's written some 10,000 files to the backup, about 212 MB worth of stuff.

Progress bar creeping very very slowly.

This effectively makes backup useless. Hope the engineers figure something out.

kgabor00

Level 1

4 points

Jun 19, 2009 12:17 AM in response to Madelline

smart thing. # Enable the option "Delete pictures from my device after copying them." but im and other ppl don't believe to accept for delete photos from the phone. yes, import back, works, but no back to camera roll folder. and not same.
other options?
where the apple support team its time?

tomagion Author

Level 1

9 points

Jun 19, 2009 12:39 AM in response to Madelline

Hi Madelline,

Great to see this one has been moved to your engineers.

There has been loads of great advice and feedback in this post.

In terms of the engineering advice the post about the driver roll back was particularly interesting one to note. Can you make sure your devs look at the driver issue, which appears to affect all OS'

Regarding backup. as you say this is very useful feature for customers. Can I suggest that your devs work on ways to give customers power over what is backed up.

If Apple maintains development guidelines for application devs (presume in the SDK) it makes sense to encourage app devs to find ways of allowing users to selectively decide what to back, perhaps through some hooks in the backup APIs.

At the end of the day my ideas are irrelevant, I guess, because if the whole backup process is fast customers will be happy.

I'd suggest fast for 8G iPhone <= 15 minutes, 16G iPhone <= 30 minutes, 32G iPhone <= 60 minutes.

You could also publish some advice to customers on this issue and add an expectation about the length of time backup will take in that advice. This could then be used in test scripts prior to release of iTunes, iPhone, etc updates.

Thanks for taking the time to add your response, its appreciated.

Cheers,

Pete

kgabor00

Level 1

4 points

Jun 19, 2009 3:14 AM in response to tomagion

SOLVED! Finaly!

Try delete or unsynchronized few app(select few on itunes, no important app uncelect) its works. Backup few min, and update 3.0.

kgabor00

Level 1

4 points

Jun 19, 2009 4:53 AM in response to kgabor00

how and when to edit my post?

i mod last msg:

Try delete or unsynchronized few app(select few on itunes, no important app uncelect, not must delete all) its works. Install 3.0. Backup nothing to do(no need? i dunno).

Jun 19, 2009 5:02 AM in response to fisakov

Hmmmmm, for anyone having this issue, try going to Settings > Safari > Clear Cache and see if that works. This would be easier than deleting all your Apps if the cause is cache. Lemme know if it works so I can send this out!

Jun 19, 2009 5:09 AM in response to tomagion

I know it does put them in a separate folder but I have been able to use the photos all the same. It's just a different folder in the phone. (Sorry if you've noticed a difference that I haven't!)

@tomagion Your ideas are most definitely not irrelevant! This stuff is what we're looking for. I think that the best idea would be to be able to select what to backup but I've sent feedback either way.

Thanks for supporting Apple!

hsisson

Level 1

0 points

Jun 19, 2009 5:50 AM in response to Madelline

Clearing the Cache for Safari is not solving the issue for me. I also tried deleted all but a few apps (didn't want to use all my grocery list items), and that did not work either. Will either try a restore on the weekend, or wait and see if Apple can resolve this with an update. The iPhone is syncing, the only thing that I'm giving up on (at the moment) is the backup. (Mine was still going after 9 hours, I have gotten as high at 39K+ files before canceling the backup...something is really messed up here.)

Jun 19, 2009 6:01 AM in response to hsisson

Yeah! I know it's not the same thing but syncing is actually better than relying on the backup. Syncing your phone gets everything to you computer and you can actually manage it. The only thing that is in your backup that you can't sync is the organization and preferences in your phone. I know I'm use to the way my icons and I like my preferences but I don't count on losing all that anyway.

TyRey

Level 1

0 points

Jun 19, 2009 6:18 AM in response to tomagion

So I have resolved this issue on my device.

I took the advice of the yatchman and restored my phone back to factory defaults. Then synced the apps, musics, etc back onto the phone. Setup took some time but it resolved the issue. Backups now take about 45 seconds. Same apps, same music, same email settings, same everything.

hsisson

Level 1

0 points

Jun 19, 2009 7:16 AM in response to Madelline

That may be so, but I have never had an issue with syncing. The backup is there for a reason, and the fact remains that I am unable to complete a backup of my iPhone since upgrading to 3.0. If I have time on the weekend I will try a clean restore.

Jun 19, 2009 7:32 AM in response to vectoria

OK here is my solution, and it worked for me.

I updated to OS 3, and had a long backup using the Sync command. Then every Sync was just as long--hours!! I did them overnight so I can't really tell how many hours.

I read elsewhere that apps downloaded/updated via the iPhone were the problem, so I deleted from the iPhone, using the iPhone, any apps that I had updated via the iPhone--(just Shazam this time).

I then "Apply"ed the apps back using iTunes.

I did a full Sync. I had to disconnect/reconnect the iPhone.

My full Sync went from hours to about 90 seconds afterwards.

I hope it works for you all--and provides some info for the techs--shame it wasn't right to begin with.

Greg

drensin

Level 1

0 points

Jun 19, 2009 8:23 AM in response to MrLuxuryYacht

After all the Googling and interminable waits, this was the only solution that worked. Corrupt data in the way, or too much data, or Data the Android ... I don't know. Clean it out with a full restore as a new device and the backup zips through. Be good to have a 3.0 backup to restore from, but then that's Catch-22. Took the hit. Pain gone.

iphone 3.0 Update + Slow Backup Process - Why Design the Backup like that??