Firmware update and SATA II hard drive

Hi Stephen,
the only solution is to revert to EFI 1.6.
I wonder if Apple will ever acknowledge officially the problem or if they offer replacement motherboards which work with any SATA II drive...
Does any know if there is a permanent solution to this problem or do we have to wait for a potential EFI 1.8 that will fix the problem?

In Stephen's case, it's not exactly reverting since his MBP came with EFI 1.7 installed. I would suggest bringing it to an Apple store and have them install the EFI 1.6 firmware just in case something goes wrong with the update. Otherwise, you can check through this monstrous thread and find the download link for the firmware yourself. But you do this at your own risk.

This thread has been dying a slow death. It seems less and less likely that any firmware fix for this issue is forthcoming.

According to the message that came with the PU 1.0 Apple thinks the problem only affects a very small number of users. For this reason, and the fact that the problem has existed since June 09, I doubt that Apple has any intentions of pursuing it further.

This is only my guess and should not be construed as anything more.

Gregory Mcintire wrote:
According to the message that came with the PU 1.0 Apple thinks the problem only affects a very small number of users. For this reason, and the fact that the problem has existed since June 09, I doubt that Apple has any intentions of pursuing it further.

This is only my guess and should not be construed as anything more.

You are suggesting that Apple says PU 1.0 has something to do with the EFI 1.7 issue… Apple has said no such thing.

Also, there is no evidence that the issue PU 1.0 was intended to fix began in June of 2009. In fact, the list of machines PU 1.0 was released for goes back to 2008.

As far as I see it, the only thing Apple has done relative to the EFI 1.7 issue was release a rollback utility to let people go back to the 1.6 firmware.

fishbert wrote:

Gregory Mcintire wrote:
According to the message that came with the PU 1.0 Apple thinks the problem only affects a very small number of users. For this reason, and the fact that the problem has existed since June 09, I doubt that Apple has any intentions of pursuing it further.

This is only my guess and should not be construed as anything more.

You are suggesting that Apple says PU 1.0 has something to do with the EFI 1.7 issue… Apple has said no such thing.

Also, there is no evidence that the issue PU 1.0 was intended to fix began in June of 2009. In fact, the list of machines PU 1.0 was released for goes back to 2008.

As far as I see it, the only thing Apple has done relative to the EFI 1.7 issue was release a rollback utility to let people go back to the 1.6 firmware.

Where does it say the list of machines PU 1.0 was released for goes back to 2008? Where did I say that it does NOT go beyond June 2009? Where did I mention EFI 1.7? Did you bother to read my last statement? You are trying way too hard to twist everything that I have said.

Gregory Mcintire wrote:

fishbert wrote:
You are suggesting that Apple says PU 1.0 has something to do with the EFI 1.7 issue… Apple has said no such thing.

Also, there is no evidence that the issue PU 1.0 was intended to fix began in June of 2009. In fact, the list of machines PU 1.0 was released for goes back to 2008.

As far as I see it, the only thing Apple has done relative to the EFI 1.7 issue was release a rollback utility to let people go back to the 1.6 firmware.

Where does it say the list of machines PU 1.0 was released for goes back to 2008? Where did I say that it does NOT go beyond June 2009? Where did I mention EFI 1.7? Did you bother to read my last statement? You are trying way too hard to twist everything that I have said.

I think your initial words were pretty clear, and that my response was valid.

That said, I'm not trying to attack you here… nor am I trying to twist anything you have said.
Your words appear to treat the issue PU 1.0 was released to fix and the EFI 1.7 issue as the same thing, and my sole intent was to clarify that Apple has never said such a thing, and that PU 1.0 does not necessarily indicate one way or the other Apple's intention on pursuing a fix for the EFI 1.7 issue.

But you appear to feel this has been misunderstood. Here's how I read it, if you would care to address any inconsistencies.

According to the message that came with the PU 1.0 Apple thinks the problem only affects a very small number of users.

Here, you appear to be defining "the problem" as that which PU 1.0 was released to fix.

For this reason, and the fact that the problem has existed since June 09,

Referencing the same "the problem," here you assert that it has been around "since June 09." I don't know where you get this date from, other than possibly drawing some connection to the EFI 1.7 issue this thread is about, as that issue arose after firmware was released in June of 2009. But that doesn't make any sense, as the release notes for PU 1.0 say that it applies to about 15 different computers (from MacBook Airs to iMacs) whose releases stretch back as far as 2008. If you could clarify where you draw this June 2009 date from, if not from the EFI 1.7 firmware release, that may be helpful.

I doubt that Apple has any intentions of pursuing it further.

Pursuing what further? If you are referring to "the problem" as you have defined it (the issue that PU 1.0 was released to fix), I would hope not, as it appears to have done its job (evidence a number of people saying it fixed their problem). It seems rather silly to pursuing a problem further after a fix is released for it. But if you are not referring to "the problem" PU 1.0 was released to fix, then what issue are you referring to? My best guess is the one that this thread is about; the EFI 1.7 issue. Please clarify if this is mistaken.

I installed PU 1.0 and EFI 1.7 (seagate 500 GB 7200 rpm). PU 1.0 clearly improved performance, with far less balls. However, it didn’t solve the problem. When copying large files from an external HD the typical annoying pauses still happen. Therefore, I came back to EFI 1.6 and now the HD is working slower but smoother.

+*According to the message that came with the PU 1.0 Apple thinks the problem only affects a very small number of users. For this reason, and the fact that the problem has existed since June 09, I doubt that Apple has any intentions of pursuing it further.*+

Interestingly... Apple tends to use the "small number" language to downplay problems. It's safe to say they would never issue an update for all users for something that impacts just a small number of users. In the case of firmware 1.7... they used the same language. A firmware update is not an inconsequential update. Failed firmware updates can cause major problems and they are typically not issues except to resolve significant issues. Their exact language for FW 1.7:

+*MacBook Pro EFI Firmware Update 1.7 addresses an issue reported by a small number of customers using drives based on the SATA 3Gbps specification with the June 2009 MacBook Pro...*+

http://support.apple.com/downloads/MacBookPro_EFI_Firmware_Update_1_7

I posted something in a thread not only related to 2009 MacBook Pros, but I do have a STRONG FEELING that you are experiencing somehow the same issue and it would justify why apple decided to desactivate the SATA 2 with your Firmware 1.6 bundled in the first place with the june 2009 MacBook Pro.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2077220&start=180&tstart=0

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Hello guys,

I wanted to post something in what you might be very interested.

I am suffering of this Beach Ball Of Death (BBOD) issue since I bought my late 2008 MacBook Pro 15'; saved it a couple of times by stopping myself when I really wanted to throw it through the window....

When I got it, the first thing I did was to replace its internal hard drive by a 7200 RPM from Seagate in order to have a super FAST laptop. Because of this beach balling, first I thought I was in lack of memory, thus I bought 2x2GB two months later.

Still, I had from time to time this beach ball spinning and stuccoing my Mac, but I was not using my mac for intensive tasks apart of playing sometimes under bootcamp (no problem with Windows XP by the way..) and sometime under MacOS. Games are running smoothly.

I erased and reinstaller Leopard twice (Fresh install) and I finally thought the bug was coming from my 7200RPM hard drive after reading all these posts on this discussions board. Therefore, I exchange it under warranty and I bought Snow Leopard at the same time, end of august (yeah, I know, but I wasn't living anymore in the same city where the shop I bought it was located and it took me time to get that the problem might come from the hard drive - I was looking for a software/daemon issue). First, after installing the new hard drive + Snow Leopard, I thought all my problems where gone. Finally the Beach Ball Of Death came back. I phone Apple for a motherboard exchange (that was a painful discussion, the lady kept saying this bug can only be software) and they finally said I have to go to an official reseller for a test I will have to pay if they conclude there is nothing wrong with my hardware.

The same day, they release the performance update 1.0. I applied it and.... no more beach ball for... 5 days or so... and then even my boot disk disappeared after an hard beach balling session when I tried coping 30GB from an external hard drive to my internal hard drive. I reinstalled Snow Leopard over my installation and then my Mac didn't wanted to boot anymore like if my installation was corrupted. Thus I made a new install again. This second install took my 3 HOURS AND AN HALF to complete...

So I am going to bring my mac tomorrow for a logic board replacement (the warranty expire the 5th of November...) but I wanted to be sure the bug was coming from there. I made intensive tests this WE during my free time:
- If I run a long memory test with TechTool Pro 5 + incline my bootcamp partition (to test intensive disk transfers), after a little while, everything starts getting incredibly slow and beach balling to death. Sometimes my MacBook Pro gets completely stuck or, WHEN IT GETS PRETTY WARM, I EVEN LOOSE WRITING PERMISSION ON MY INTERNAL hard drive.
- I ran a similar test booting from an external hard drive : I get beach balls as well, e.g. when I try to browse my internal disk, when cloning it + running a memory test.
- I wanted to be sure it is not coming from my 4GB memory sticks. Thus, I put again the original Apple memory (2x1GB) and another time only one memory stick (1x1GB). Similar issues too.
==> After these tests, I had each time to leave my mac cool down for two minutes or IT WOULD NOT BOOT AGAIN ON OS X (but under XP it works). I guess this bug only occurs when somethings gets warm in the mac. I started to think about the SATA controller or firmware, especially because there is no bug under BootCamp (XP) or when I use an Emergency OS X intensively on an external FireWire 800 hard drive. Probably Windows only use SATA I and OS X SATA II. Maybe there is another reason but....
- ... Then I wanted to give a try with the Apple hardware test. I already did this in the past, but never an EXTENDED TEST. I ran it once with my 4GB memory, and once with the 2GB Apple memory. I got exactly the same result (but nothing with a short test) and, at least , a proof that I need a motherboard replacement : the SATA interface looks definitely crapped. I suggest you guys to try the same with your bugged laptop.

Have a look on this picture :
http://sites.estvideo.net/rv/beachball.jpg
error 4HDD/11/40000004: SATA(0,0)

RV wrote:
I posted something in a thread not only related to 2009 MacBook Pros, but I do have a STRONG FEELING that you are experiencing somehow the same issue and it would justify why apple decided to desactivate the SATA 2 with your Firmware 1.6 bundled in the first place with the june 2009 MacBook Pro.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2077220&start=180&tstart=0

The issue this thread is about is not temperature related. This was eliminated quite some time ago.

I just wanted to follow up on my post. To recap:

Purchased a 15" MBP 2.53 with 1.7 firmware.
Installed a WD Scorpio Blue 750GB and experienced read/write speeds frequently dropping to 0.
Downloaded "Performance Update 1.0" and disabled SMS. Stalls.
SMART Utility returned no errors. Stalls.

Tonight I took my WD Scorpio Blue 750GB, wiped it clean, and did a fresh install of OS X 10.6. Stalls. I then installed the OEM Hitachi 250GB, wiped it clean, and did a fresh install of OS X 10.6. Works great.

I still have not heard back from Apple support. I did hear back from OWC after complaining to them that I purchased a drive they recommended as being fully compatible with my machine. Their response was:

"Unfortunately it looks like the update will come from Apple. This is an OS kernel issue that will require an Apple update to the OS."

Apple?

Have you seen that new Macbook Pros are being released in a few weeks?

Apple are doing this earlier than expected, masquerading as a need to offer faster processors, but really it's to release new hardware that does not have SATA II 3g faults.

coolas wrote:
Have you seen that new Macbook Pros are being released in a few weeks?

Apple are doing this earlier than expected, masquerading as a need to offer faster processors, but really it's to release new hardware that does not have SATA II 3g faults.

MacBook Pros are likely being refreshed because Intel's i5 and i7 chips are now available. Look at the new iMac if you want to know what new MBPs will look like (same 9400M chipset, btw).

That said, I'd be very interested to see if this issue is resolved in new machines, and if so, what changes there are in the SATA signal path (same SATA cable, or perhaps a less flimsy one? for example).

I finally got my MB Pro back from the Genius Bar at the Apple store.

I set up a Universal Boot Drive and installed Leopard 10.5.1 on it using my wife's Power PC iBook. I had to format the HD in APM (Apple Partition Map). (See Tech Note kb/HT2595.)

After the install of Leopard 10.5.1, and installing the Performance Update 1.0, I took the MB Pro and Universal Boot Drive to the Apple Store to see if I could set up the drive to access both my wife's Power PC and my Intel Mac Book Pro.

We ran into issues--and tried to install EF1 1.7 agin on the MB Pro--and the *MB Pro hung up again!*

The MB Pro was at the Apple Store for over a week--and I picked it up on Sunday.

It was not working and they removed the 3 rd party drive and said it was faulty. I told them it worke well before the recent FW update to 1.7 and it did this twice before.

I took the MB Pro home after they reinstalled the HD.

I later phoned Apple Care and found out the drive was indeed not working due to he EFI 1.7 upgrade which was not removed.

I confirmed this with the Apple Hardware Test disk. The Firm Ware version is in the Boot Rom sequence. (See the Apple Support KB/HT1237 for more info)

I took it back to the store on Monday and they finally removed the 500 GB HD and rolled back the EFI 1.7 to EFI 1.6 and now it works pretty well again.

The universal boot drive that I have now works with both the wife's Power PC and my MacBook Pro and all of the Macs that were connected to it.

It is a portable Lacie Encloure HD which I can use for diagnosis and also for access to any Mac.

It is very small and is 250 GB and does not need a power supply as it works off of he FW port.

Now It is great.

I m reluctant to migrate to Snow Leopard yet.

I just heard back from Apple tech support. Their only suggestion is that I bring my machine to a Genius to change the Boot ROM. They say that they can't guarantee compatibility with a 3rd-party drive.

This is absolutely unacceptable. Changing the Boot ROM is not a solution. Hard drives are a user-replaceable part and there is no reason that this drive should not be compatible.

APPLE: CAN YOU TELL ME EXACTLY WHY THIS DRIVE IS NOT COMPATIBLE? CAN YOU PROVIDE ME WITH THE SPECS THAT A DRIVE NEEDS TO MEET TO BE COMPATIBLE?