Q: Firmware update and SATA II hard drive

Ollie as a recap you have

Changed Logic board
Ribbon Sata Cable
Downgraded to 1.6 then back to 1.7
And put in an SSD
And everything works?

So then....the fact that my brand new MacBook Pro works totally fine with the stock HDD that came in it, but freezes intermittently with 20-30 second beach balls when I put in my WD 500 GB Blue HDD, does NOT sound like the same issue everyone else is having? Please explain then. I'm simply saying that myself and many others are having the exact same symptoms as everyone else, (works fine with stock HDD, freezes with beach balls all the time when a 3rd party drive is installed) and that by disabling the SMS has worked for us. Deal with it.

There is varying issues. It stems from the Firmware 1.7 update. There are many who are having problems with aftermarket hard drives being added and then subsequently having beachball freezeup issues. There are also those of us who have stock hard drives and are having the same random beachball freeze up issues.

Some people have noticed that for whatever reason disabling SMS has worked. Why? I have no idea, but someone mentioned it could be due to the type of hard drive supporting some sort of anti-shock technology.

For most though it deals with SATA II issues.

Anyway, solutions vary. Some say PRAM/Cache cleaning works, some say SMS works. But the rest of us it doesn't work. The only way to get a 100% fix is to downgrade to 1.6

Err. I don't know what to do. I have the laptop in front of me but i'm currently at work. I won't be off until after the Apple store closes. Maybe I'll return it this weekend. i'm sick of this issue.

I've been an Apple fan since 2005. I upgrade my computer every year or so. I lost count at around 9 Macs, including MacBook Pros, minis, and iMacs. I've turned no fewer than 5 people on to Macs. Directly, I'm responsible for probably over $30k of sales to Apple.

This is why things like this SATA II issue really bug me. It's as if Apple has forgotten about its users.

Apple needs to man up and at least post a link in the forums to ease our minds.

Bryan

I go back to the Apple II and have been a very good customer of Apple products through the years.

I have spoken to someone higher up the food chain who, contrary to popular belief, said that Apple does pay attention to these forums and allocates resources accordingly.

I expressed my displeasure that Apple never admits to issues unless a solution is imminent. He assured me that this issue is getting Apple's attention and that Apple doesn't like to commit to solutions before they are solved because the time frames are rarely known. I said they should at least admit it is under investigation. He understood my concerns.

So lets all keep the pressure on. This will mean more resources on Apple's part will be commited to a solution.

Hoping for a quick resolution ... ken

sgginc wrote:
I go back to the Apple II and have been a very good customer of Apple products through the years.

I have spoken to someone higher up the food chain who, contrary to popular belief, said that Apple does pay attention to these forums and allocates resources accordingly.

I expressed my displeasure that Apple never admits to issues unless a solution is imminent. He assured me that this issue is getting Apple's attention and that Apple doesn't like to commit to solutions before they are solved because the time frames are rarely known. I said they should at least admit it is under investigation. He understood my concerns.

So lets all keep the pressure on. This will mean more resources on Apple's part will be commited to a solution.

Hoping for a quick resolution ... ken

Ken- Good post. I realize they can't do everything all at once, but some peace of mind is often all we need. My HDD upgrade which should have only taken about 5 minutes to install and close the case back up turned into a 6 hour ordeal, ending with finding this thread and then realizing this was an issue way back when I got my MBP but didn't affect me as my stock drive was working fine. I wish I would have remembered, rather than trying to install in various enclosures, formatting, reformatting, screwing and unscrewing the case about 10 times, each time thinking surely I had it solved.

It was bad. It reminded me of my old Packard Bell days back in 1994, my first real PC. I used to delete files I shouldn't have, as I loved to tinker. I'd end up on the phone with support in the wee hours of the morning. It got to a point when I just figured out how to fix the problems myself. Many sleepless nights, and physically getting sick thinking I ruined a $2,400 PC (that my father paid for), not knowing all I know now.

My Apple experience has been unbelievable, and even this issue won't tarnish it in the long run.

Bryan

fishbert wrote:

The1Payday wrote:
I would just to re-iterate for everyone having the Sata II problems. Myself and few other users have found that disabling the "Sudden Motion Sensor" seems to be working.

Conflicts with the sudden motion sensor are _*completely different*_ than the SATA II interface issue that is the subject of this thread. In fact, not only are the two problems unrelated, but the two system functions (the SATA II interface and the sudden motion sensor) are completely unrelated in the hardware design itself.

This is not a catch-all thread for anything and everything that causes beachballing. The SATA II interface bug is very specific.

The1Payday wrote:
So then....the fact that my brand new MacBook Pro works totally fine with the stock HDD that came in it, but freezes intermittently with 20-30 second beach balls when I put in my WD 500 GB Blue HDD, does NOT sound like the same issue everyone else is having? Please explain then. I'm simply saying that myself and many others are having the exact same symptoms as everyone else, (works fine with stock HDD, freezes with beach balls all the time when a 3rd party drive is installed) and that by disabling the SMS has worked for us. Deal with it.

Alright, I will explain...

Just because an issue "sounds like the same issue everyone else is having" does not mean that it is the same issue everyone else is having. The issue you solved by disabling the sudden motion sensor (SMS) was a different, known issue where the laptop's shock protection feature conflicts with the same feature in third party drives with their own shock protection feature.

The causes of that shock protection conflict issue and this SATA II interface issue are (again) _*completely different*_ and unrelated to one another.

In short:
Disabling the SMS feature is a solution to a problem... but not a solution to the SATA II interface problem that is the subject of this thread.

-------

Additionally, I would point out that when you listed your symptoms in a draft letter to Apple that you posted here on Sept. 12th (page 90), I told you back then that _*your problem sounded different*_ than what was discussed here.

fishbert wrote:

The1Payday wrote:
Below is the letter I'm about to send to Apple. I urge others to do the same. Let me know what you think:

Hello.

I'm writing today about an issue I'm sure you at Apple have already heard complaints of multiple times, as it is affecting a large number of your customers who purchased a 2009 MacBook Pro from your company. ANY third-party hard drive installed in one of these machines, will cause the machine to freeze up at random intervals for anywhere from a few seconds to 2 or 3 minutes.

...

A longtime Apple user,

(And in case you were wondering, my computer froze SIX times while composing this letter, for about 5 seconds each time.)

Not a bad letter, but I would note that if you are seeing freezes lasting only 5 seconds or so, the cause is probably a different issue… which also would make sense if you are "still seeing the issue" on firmware 1.6.

A wide variety of problems have freezing/beachballing symptoms.

This was BEFORE you got all hung up and evangelical on the false idea that disabling SMS was a solution to the SATA II interface problem.

The1Payday wrote:
... does NOT sound like the same issue everyone else is having? Please explain then.

I could tell back then (and from way over here) that your problem was different... maybe you should've listened the first time.

The1Payday wrote:
... Deal with it.

I think I just did.

sgginc wrote:
I go back to the Apple II and have been a very good customer of Apple products through the years.

I have spoken to someone higher up the food chain who, contrary to popular belief, said that Apple does pay attention to these forums and allocates resources accordingly.

I expressed my displeasure that Apple never admits to issues unless a solution is imminent. He assured me that this issue is getting Apple's attention and that Apple doesn't like to commit to solutions before they are solved because the time frames are rarely known. I said they should at least admit it is under investigation. He understood my concerns.

So lets all keep the pressure on. This will mean more resources on Apple's part will be commited to a solution.

Hoping for a quick resolution ... ken

I really hope this is correct. And, assuming that it is, I really hope they are able to find a solution sometime soon. This has gone on far too long already.

So if my issue is specific to my 3rd party HDD's anti-shock feature interfering with the onboard SMS system in my new MacBook Pro, how does the fact that the SAME HDD worked totally fine for over a year in my original MacBook, fit into your theory, fishbert?

Should return my MBP or no? I have it sealed! I don't know what to do. Can you tell me what exactly is going on with the Sata II hard speed. what are the symptons and what machines are having the problem? 3 party drives or Apple drives or what?

You can add me to the list:

MBP 13'' works fine with the included 160GB disk, but randomly freezes as soon as I switch this disk for a WD3200BEVT. The new disk works perfectly fine in an external Firewire case and in my old plastic Macbook. Apple support in Germany claims to not have heard about this problem before and refuses to provide support for 3rd party drives. My local Apple Service provider hasn't heard about a EFI downgrade either.

This *****! Apple should come out with a fix soon if they don't want their customers to look themselves for EFI downgrades from obscure sources. I desperately hope that the SATA-II support can be fixed be in software. I don't want to get stucked with a MBP revision that has a defective hdd-controller!

The1Payday wrote:
So if my issue is specific to my 3rd party HDD's anti-shock feature interfering with the onboard SMS system in my new MacBook Pro, how does the fact that the SAME HDD worked totally fine for over a year in my original MacBook, fit into your theory, fishbert?

a) SMS conflicts between Apple laptops and 3rd party hard drives are nothing new… and certainly cannot be called a "theory"

b) you turned off SMS on your laptop and all of a sudden your beachballing went away… beachballing that was identified as different than that seen with the SATA II issue. A blind man could see that you had a SMS conflict -- not a problem with the 1.7 firmware's SATA II interface (especially since you had already downgraded to 1.6)

c) You are the one making a wild claim that disabling SMS is a solution to the SATA II interface bug (despite many others in this thread from the very beginning observing otherwise). I'm sorry that you chose to pick up this ball and run with it, but you need to show some measure of evidence to continue making these wild claims without sounding like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

d) I'm not interested in a protracted argument with a silly person. Good day.

MBP15 wrote:
Should return my MBP or no? I have it sealed! I don't know what to do. Can you tell me what exactly is going on with the Sata II hard speed. what are the symptons and what machines are having the problem? 3 party drives or Apple drives or what?

I'd take it back and get a refund.
Buying a used or refurbished 2008 MacBook Pro will not decrease your performance at all as the two generations are roughly equivalent in that area. You will likely save a bundle of money, and you can rest easy about the SATA II interface.

The only down side I see is that you won't be able to put 8GB of RAM in it (unless you get one specific level of the 15" MBP, that is), but that's probably not a big issue with how expensive that is for such limited gain.

VEry few people have any problem with a new MBP out of the box. It is when they install certain hard drives that the problems show up.

Open your box and use your new computer. You will love it I am sure.