Q: Firmware update and SATA II hard drive

id have to challenge that statement, very people DONT have a problem with a machine out of the box, i remember one year, i think in 2005, i had to return/exchange laptops 7 times......

Its sad to say but the reality of it is this, when you buy apple products its like playing the lottery, sometimes your a winner but most times you are a loser.

Also, after a logic board and hard drive swap i can clarify and confirm that (at least in my case) it hasnt solved anything, there is still lock ups with the new logic board and hard drive combo on snow leopard 10.6.1, i get beachballing when i run aja system test + transferring 4 gigs of data + watching a 700 mb xvid movie in quicktime x at the same time, causes a system wide freeze.

Peter Di Arcangelo wrote:
Its sad to say but the reality of it is this, when you buy apple products its like playing the lottery, sometimes your a winner but most times you are a loser.

Much as I am annoyed by Apple's silence on this issue and the unconscionable wait for a solution, this statement is simply not representative of my experience of Apple products generally. I've owned dozens of Macs starting in the 80's, and have been responsible for purchasing and managing dozens more at work. Generally speaking, the quality has been top notch, and the tech support miles ahead of the PCs which I was responsible for. I can count on one hand the hardware problems I've had with Apple products over the last 20 years. That's as off topic as I want to get...

maybe were not talking about the same thing here, yes ive never encountered a machine that "doesnt work" but ive encountered way too many "bugs" or "imperfections" for a machine of this level and price, if you need further examples (See nvidia 8600, macbook air hinge (finally addressed recently after what? 2 years))

I cant say apple is on par with a company like dell, i would say apple is beyond that, just that for the price we are dropping on this epic "combination of hardware and software" there is much left to be desired.

Message was edited by: Peter Di Arcangelo

Peter Di Arcangelo wrote:
Ollie as a recap you have

Changed Logic board
Ribbon Sata Cable
Downgraded to 1.6 then back to 1.7
And put in an SSD
And everything works?

Yes exactly. After my first upgrade I had the lockups every 1-3 minutes after which I got the hardware changed.

In fact i never had to downgrade as the replacement logic board came with 1.6.

Ollie.

Ok...I will make some "claims" to support my theory for you. Here you go:

-My stock Apple shipped HDD in my 13" MBP works totally fine with no issues.
-When I put in my Western Digital Blue HDD into my machine I get the beach ball issues that everyone else is complaining about.
-The same exact WD HDD works totally fine in my 13" White MacBook and has done so for years.
-The WD HDD does NOT have any kind of anti-shock technology built in that could be interfering with the onboard SMS on my new MacBook Pro.

It seems as though you are more interested in trying to make yourself seem witty and cute with your smart *** remarks, and less worried about, oh I don't know, contributing anything to the thread that might actually help with a solution. I'm sorry that disabling the SMS has worked for me, but I guarantee you I am having the same SATA II issues as everyone else. Disabling the SMS has worked for me, but may not work for everyone. Other's have reported success with resetting the PRAM, running ONYX cleanup on their system, or downgrading to firmware 1.6; although these fixes have helped for some, they have not worked for everyone, just as disabling the SMS for me has worked, but may not for everyone else.

Why is changing the logic board curing the problem for some?

Is it because the original logic board is defective (seems quite unlikely in any large volume) or is it because that it is a simple (but expensive) way of going from EFI 1.7 to EFI 1.6?

My question is what exactly is the logic behind replacing the logic board to cure this problem? It just sounds like a last ditch shotgun approach to problem solving that avoids actual diagnosis and understanding of what the cause of the problem actually is.

After getting my logicboard and hard drive replaced to no avail, i called apple CR and told them about this issue, they suggested i go in for another repair, and if this repair is inconclusive they will exchange my machine.

They are now goign to replace my hard drive and logic board again, along with my ram and black sata cable, lets hope the issue gets resolved hopefully.

I can certainly understand that Apple's first obligation is to get the customer satisfied. However, that approach to solving a problem does not help to find what is actually causing the problem. Replacing the logic board and the hard drive twice and also this time adding some more replacement parts is nonsense. This will never tell you what was wrong if it works. I hope their engineering department is looking at this problem in a serious manner and ignoring the results of an experiment such as this.

Again, Apple's first responsibility is to get the customer back on the road but this just wreaks of idiocy on their port.

I fully agree, they replaced it once, what are the chances the second time around it will actually fix something? Even the geniuses facial expressions were blatantly expressing "Really?, Again?" Either way, if this issue isnt fixxed this time around im going to get an exchange machine, what worries me is what if this exchange machine has the same problem? then what? All i want is a working machine, since thats what i payed for right? Also, i dont want to go to the Apple store or recieve an exchange another 8 times.... its rediculous.

Peter Di Arcangelo wrote:

I fully agree, they replaced it once, what are the chances the second time around it will actually fix something? Even the geniuses facial expressions were blatantly expressing "Really?, Again?" Either way, if this issue isn't fixed this time around I am going to get an exchange machine, what worries me is what if this exchange machine has the same problem? then what? All I want is a working machine, since that's what I paid for right? Also, i don't want to go to the Apple store or receive an exchange another 8 times.... its ridiculous.

Peter:



All I can say is I had a working MB Pro with a Seagate SATA II 500 GB internal HD as I updated my software with this system configuration. I had a startup issue after I installed EFI 1.7 FW. I had the Logic board replaced by dealer.



When we updated software--all was OK. When I updated the EFI 1.7 FW--it locked up again using the Seagate 500 GB SATA II HD.



I got the MB Pro working by having the dealer remove the 500 GB Seagate 7200 RPM Drive and replacing it with the factory installed Hitachi 250 GB HD.



Then the "Apple Genius" installed the "roll back" at the Apple store to get me back to EFI 1.6.



The dealer then installed the 500 GB Seagate SATA II drive. All work OK now.



I put the 250 GB factory installed HD in an enclosure. Both drives work well now.



I just ran Disk Warrior 4.2 compatible up-grade disk and checked out all my drives.



So far all is OK.



I have not installed Snow Leopard yet--as I want to get TechTools Pro 5.06 compatible disk for that phase of the migration.



I am not using EFI 1.7 and am patiently waiting for EFI 1.8 or whatever--but I have a well working Mac Book Pro so far.



Best of Luck.



bobg

I am with you 100% on this side, i just see it this way, they will keep repairing and replacing units until they figure out there is a big problem. i REALLY REALLY don't think apple doesn't know we are having problems, i do think they are trying to ignore the issue. In my case the problems persist with efi 1.7 and the stock hard drive, the only way to cure the issue is indeed downgrading to efi 1.6 but thats not a solution its just a temporary fix, apple needs to officially fix this.

That being said, i will exchange repair and return to my hearts content, because in reality the machine is defective, and they need to play along also, lets see how much money they are willing to lose until they decide to address this issue.

All is well about a week after rolling back to 1.6. My Seagate 7200.4 500GB drive is working fine, no noises, or any issues. The only thing I can say happened, and I don't know what causes this, hardware or software, is that while playing a song in iTunes, my computer seemed to freeze for about 10 seconds. I move the mouse and got a beach ball. But, I was running about 7 apps at the time, and any one of those could have been the culprit. Only that one issue in a week, but I'll keep my eyes open.

For those that have been returning their Macs.... keep it up. You paid for a working computer-- you paid dearly. You deserve to be happy and not be stuck with a "aluminum box of hurt," to paraphrase someone we all know and love.

For me the 1.6 rollback seemed to solve the problem, but I wouldn't hesitate to make 10 genius bar appointments in any given week if my computer were not working as stated when I purchased it.

Bryan

You are right to expect your new MBP to work with SATA II but if its any consolation, mine works with the 1.6 as well as the 1.7 firmware with the stock drive. But, according to Xbench the stock drive is 9% faster when I am using the _1.6 firmware_. I confirmed this after fresh boots and fresh PRAM resets of both firmware versions and it is consistent.

My stock drive is a Hitachi 5400 RPM, 250GB.
Model: Hitachi HTS545025B9SA02

Perhaps I have missed it in this thread but has anyone tried booting into 64 bit mode and seeing if that has any affect on hard drive function? I have only now tried 64 bit mode for the first time and it seems some things are considerably faster.