Q: Firmware update and SATA II hard drive

fishbert wrote:
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but this thread is 103 pages long. It doesn't need extra filler for every little thing that causes a beachball. It's great that you found something that solved some beachballing problem on your 17" MacBook Pro, but that doesn't have anything to do with the 13"/15" MBP firmware-specific SATA II issues that this thread is all about.

Please don't "do the rounds" here next time you want to spam every beachballing thread out there with the same thing.

_*++Why are you so offensive to people who post here?++*_

Wan Chai Man wrote:

fishbert wrote:
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but this thread is 103 pages long. It doesn't need extra filler for every little thing that causes a beachball. It's great that you found something that solved some beachballing problem on your 17" MacBook Pro, but that doesn't have anything to do with the 13"/15" MBP firmware-specific SATA II issues that this thread is all about.

Please don't "do the rounds" here next time you want to spam every beachballing thread out there with the same thing.

_*++Why are you so offensive to people who post here?++*_

I think I was pretty clear on my motivations in those first two sentences you quoted.

If I'm offensive to others, it is because they are turning the thread off-topic and running far afield from the issue this thread is based on (whether they realize it or not). Which, quite frankly, is quite offensive in its own right.

That was precisely the situation there, yet the person responsible didn't seem to respond to more gentle suggestions that the matter near and dear to his heart might be better served somewhere else.

People seem to like piling on the big thread where lots of people are already talking about something else (ah, an audience!). But after a thread gets hijacked in 10 different directions, it becomes impossible to pull it back together and it's usefulness is thus destroyed.

Oliver F wrote:
Fishbert getting back on the the topic, you seem fairly passionate to get this resolved as well. What is your status with Apple Support? Are you still have an active case open ?

The extent of my case with Apple Support was a trip to the Genius Bar, where the helpful employee looked at what I had to show him, and began taking down notes for a … something to escalate to engineering (some acronym, but I don't remember it now). Then, the next day I received a call from someone else at the store who said they couldn't submit the escalation because it involved a 3rd party hard drive (something I never mentioned in my visit) and it would thus be rejected by engineering. I argued with them as much as I could (while remaining civil… surprise, surprise to some of you out there), even asking why they couldn't just submit the escalation anyway and let engineering reject it (to which they replied that it would be an abuse of the escalation procedure). The best they ever offered was to look at other retail channel options… a vague and nebulous promise which I never heard back about because a few days later they lead tech at the Apple Store called me and told me that Apple had just released a firmware rollback tool.

That's where it has stayed on my end. Though, I have been fairly consistent in highly suggesting the "keep calling phone support" route to others, if they have the fortitude. But I haven't actually done that myself (for shame!).

I really should get on the horn to Apple Support proper and bug them about this issue, but I haven't had the heart to get into a protracted butting of heads with some faceless support minion. Perhaps in the next few weeks.

That said, interesting post you made a few weeks back in a forum topic that is specifically about the *17 INCH MBP* with the Hitachi 5400 drive (hey that's the same as mine!). Here's how the topic begins:

"I'm starting this post because Apple has announced that they are working on a fix for the 500 GB / 7200 rpm drive and it's beeping issue. I have the 17" uMBP with the 5400 rpm drive and I am getting the exact same stalls and beach balls without the beep."

and here is your reply - I've extracted the good bits:

(http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=10187131#10187131)

----
This is a known issue with 13" and 15" mid-2009 MacBook Pro laptops.
...
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2054387 (1,321 replies over 89 pages... and counting)
...
Best advice:
...
3) get thee to a genius bar and have them roll back your firmware to version 1.6
-----

riiiiiiight.... wait a sec, Firmware 1.6 doesn't APPLY to this person's 17 inch MacBook right? The 17 inch and 13, 15 inch problems are *ENTIRELY SEPARATE ISSUES*, so why leave those instructions? Here's hoping this person didn't get to that genius bar in the end and ask for that downgrade.

Look, maybe you've learnt a lot more about these issues in the weeks since that post. Honestly, I TRULY DO (I'm not being sarcastic here) applaud you for linking back to this forum from there. Had I only read that topic a few weeks ago, and not seen this monster topic, I would have appreciated you linking to here, since I would have wanted all the info on this range of issues and possible solutions I could get my hands on.

I am also indebted to the kind person who posted in this topic suggesting that perhaps HDAPM might help, even if you thought it might have been off topic. Had he not posted that here, I probably wouldn't have known about it, and I would still be getting angry at my machine. Perhaps I'm lucky, perhaps my hard drive is dodgy, perhaps HDAPM will do nothing for ANYONE ELSE, but I'm ecstatic it worked for me.

We all want the same thing here. We all want the machine we paid for. I feel especially sorry for those first-time mac users who have watched the commercials trumpeting the reliability of the Mac, and then found that their shiny new expensive computer is running worse than a PC they've owned previously that cost half as much. Especially since these people may be very nervous about applying unofficial firmware patches, or think terminal commands are like hieroglyphics, or have to waste hours on the phone with support, or have to trek to an Apple store that may not be just a quick train stop, or walk away.

It's also a shame that these people may not persist with the Mac platform on that basis, since when the Mac works, it's a wonderful polished platform that often gives me a warm fuzzy feeling as I use my computer day to day.

All the best guys. I'll be watching these topics, but probably not contributing so much any more.

Well, after a couple of weeks with no beachballs using my stock 160GB HDD, I tried giving my 128GB Patriot Torqx SSD one more go around with the 1.6 firmware.

I SuperDuper'd the drive over using a SATA to USB dongle and all was well for a while. That was until Time Machine went to start backing up while at the same time Spotlight decided to start indexing the drive.

Then it all went to heck. Got the beachball, then the system mouse went dead, yet I could still use my Logitech wireless mouse (USB dongle attached). While the mouse was moving, the system itself was completely frozen -- no clicks registered, no keyboard presses.

Ticked off to no end, I shut down the machine, took out the SSD AGAIN, and I refuse to deal with this again until Apple gets their ** together!

Message was edited by: Mazda3s

I can't believe that I stumbled across this long posting...... I had just ordered an Intel SSD for my just purchased MBP but was able to cancel that item before it shipped. I tried to replace my stock HD with a Hitachi 7200 320 Sata II drive. I couldn't even format the drive from SL disc. Its a real shame that this MBP is so crippled. Anyway its going back to the Apple store for a refund.

Victor Bellehumeur wrote:
I can't believe that I stumbled across this long posting...... I had just ordered an Intel SSD for my just purchased MBP but was able to cancel that item before it shipped. I tried to replace my stock HD with a Hitachi 7200 320 Sata II drive. I couldn't even format the drive from SL disc. Its a real shame that this MBP is so crippled. Anyway its going back to the Apple store for a refund.

If you really want to use your new hard drive, bring it to the Apple store and have the EFI firmware rolled back to 1.6. I had the same problem as you, drive wouldn't format/boot, but would do so from an external enclosure. Since rolling back the firmware to 1.6 I've had no issues with my new drive, no beachballs, etc. Your milage may vary.

Bryan

ispytodd wrote:
FWIW.. I've yet to have any issues with an aftermarket Seagate Momentus 5400.6 ST9500325AS in my MBP 13" EFI 1.7. I did a clean install of Snow Leopard on it. I use it at work and at home on a daily basis. Hard drive has been in for about a week. Only note is that my SMART load cycle count it a little high (I think).. around 120/hr.. I will attempt to monitor this thread if anyone has questions.

Hard Drive:
ST9500325AS:
Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)
Model: ST9500325AS
Revision: 0001SDM1

uhh, forget my prior claim of 'no problems here'.. I had 2 complete system freezes w/ beachball yesterday. Interestingly it happened in safari with no video running, just a bunch of hefty webapps.. I run a pretty lean system (its less than two weeks old) and find this a little unsettling... look forward to a new EFI update... considering HDAPM util until then.

If I have to say this every 10 pages of this threat I will... Apple needs to MAN UP and get a mouthpiece in here and let us know what's going on and what steps they are taking to solve the issue. Would it be so hard to put a little sticky on top of the forum?? But if they acknowledge, financially they may have to deal with more service demands, etc.

In any event, we deserve much better.

Brya

I concur!!!

blackmondo wrote:
That said, interesting post you made a few weeks back in a forum topic that is specifically about the *17 INCH MBP* with the Hitachi 5400 drive (hey that's the same as mine!). Here's how the topic begins:

"I'm starting this post because Apple has announced that they are working on a fix for the 500 GB / 7200 rpm drive and it's beeping issue. I have the 17" uMBP with the 5400 rpm drive and I am getting the exact same stalls and beach balls without the beep."

and here is your reply - I've extracted the good bits:

(http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=10187131#10187131)

----
This is a known issue with 13" and 15" mid-2009 MacBook Pro laptops.
...
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2054387 (1,321 replies over 89 pages... and counting)
...
Best advice:
...
3) get thee to a genius bar and have them roll back your firmware to version 1.6
-----

riiiiiiight.... wait a sec, Firmware 1.6 doesn't APPLY to this person's 17 inch MacBook right? The 17 inch and 13, 15 inch problems are *ENTIRELY SEPARATE ISSUES*, so why leave those instructions? Here's hoping this person didn't get to that genius bar in the end and ask for that downgrade.

The subject of that thread is "Unibody Macbook Pro with 500 gb / 5400 rpm drive issues!" The thread author says he has a 17" MBP, but the thread is not specific to just that size, and a full 50% of the 26 posts before mine were from people who either didn't indicate what model of computer they were using, or indicated they had a 13" or 15" MBP. So, it's a little silly to say that thread was "specifically about the *17 INCH MBP* with the Hitachi 5400 drive" ... and the singular post I made did have a few fundamental differences than what you've been repeatedly pushing in here.

Look, maybe you've learnt a lot more about these issues in the weeks since that post. Honestly, I TRULY DO (I'm not being sarcastic here) applaud you for linking back to this forum from there. Had I only read that topic a few weeks ago, and not seen this monster topic, I would have appreciated you linking to here, since I would have wanted all the info on this range of issues and possible solutions I could get my hands on.

That's what you do when you find a thread like that where people may or may not be seeing an issue already covered in a different thread -- you post a link to that other thread, include a short note about it, and then you stop. You'll also notice that this post of mine you point to is the only one I ever made in that thread and that its singular purpose was to direct people to a different thread. In this manner, I offered a path to another discussion covering an issue that some in the thread may have been seeing, without repeatedly pushing that other discussion on everyone and also without hijacking the rest of the discussion in that thread.

+"Hey, there's a similar known issue involving X that's being discussed over here... here's a link so you can join that discussion over there if you want to talk about X. Bye now."+ Short, direct, unobtrusive, possibly helpful, and it ushers others to a different thread instead of hijacking that one.

All the best guys. I'll be watching these topics, but probably not contributing so much any more.

Please do continue to contribute. Just not in here on an unrelated issue.

The problem that HDAPM fixed for you is demonstrably different than what is discussed here. As such, its place is in another thread, not this one. That doesn't mean it's not valuable information to some... just that discussion of it is obtrusively misplaced here.

In the interest of mutual benefit (and because it has seemed rather difficult for you on your own), I have created on your behalf your very own thread in which you can discuss with others this HDAPM thing as much as you want. If anyone else reading this wants to learn more about this HDAPM thing that has solved a different beachballing issue unrelated to the 13" and 15" MBP firmware update and its SATA II interface implementation, I would highly encourage you to visit there as well.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2181690

And, now that you have your very own place to evangelize HDAPM, please understand that I have no desire to continue dragging this back-and-forth out in here -- that's also not what this thread is for.

I would like to add my voice to the growing number of users on this thread experiencing this problem. Please get it sorted apple, and keep us in the loop!

DavidKay wrote:
I would like to add my voice to the growing number of users on this thread experiencing this problem. Please get it sorted apple, and keep us in the loop!

Yes - I think that's the only real solution.

EFI 1.8 please!

DavidKay wrote:
I would like to add my voice to the growing number of users on this thread experiencing this problem. Please get it sorted apple, and keep us in the loop!

Apple's address is 1 Infinite Loop, so I wouldn't count on being kept in the loop.

Ponzi wrote:

DavidKay wrote:
I would like to add my voice to the growing number of users on this thread experiencing this problem. Please get it sorted apple, and keep us in the loop!

Apple's address is 1 Infinite Loop, so I wouldn't count on being kept in the loop.

Ha!
Their engineers assigned to this issue must still be stuck on the drive.