Q: Firmware update and SATA II hard drive

fishbert:
I was not able to see any physical difference in regards to the new SATA cable. I did see it being swapped, but was a little far far away. from what I can tell looking at it now comparing to the pictures on the web, it looks pretty much the same.

I still believe there is a chance that the culprit is the EFI upgrade process itself. Why I say that is:

1) The issue is hit and miss. We had working and non-working SATA MBP all along. There does not seem to be a relation between the issue and the build date. I do not believe that there is a HW rev difference between the working/not working MBP looking at the history at hand. The thread is long, but not as long as too suggest that its an issue affecting the whole customer base.

2) During the upgrade process the FW is copied to the EFI partition from where it is executed during boot. Hence there is a chance, that any possible issue addressed by EFI 1.7 or any issues during writing the FW update from the download to the EFI partition could prevent a "clean" FW burn (which would have to transfer over the SATA bus). I looked at the binaries doing the upgrade and i do not see any specific CRC checks implemented in that software. When I installed mine the second time, I took extra care and done it from a fresh install.

3) Some users have now reported, that after installing the Performance update and re-upgrading to EFI 1.7 from 1.6 their issues are gone while seemingly having full SATA II performance as demonstrated by the Benchmarks posted. This potentially could mean that FW burn this time happened correctly, rather than the issue being fixed by the "Performance upgrade" which best case would only smooth over the symptoms rather than fixing them.

There really is no harm in trying the upgrade. The 1.6 downgrade is available to us as a worst case measure (or preferably going to the Apple store for the downgrade if you are near one).

I for one did not have to resort to this as my issue was fixed after the second upgrade.

The only caveat is still that my issue was resolved by the logic board and cable swap early on (before the downgrade utility was available) but given point 1) this seems to be not the case.

I really wonder if people having the issue resolved would see issues under Bootcamp.

Ollie.

There are still a lot of things it could be. My worst fear is that it's a signal integrity issue with the routing on the logic board. A firmware update would be (one would think) quick and easy. A cable is a bit more expensive, but preferable to a logic board replacement.

I don't know about a problem with the upgrade process, though… it's possible if they aren't running a check on what they've loaded, but there are two problems with that. First, that's a really basic step they'd be missing not to run a post-loading check. Second, if firmware is loaded improperly, it seems there would be more severe problems than an every now and then bit of freezing, followed by perfect recovery.

Going a little out of order here, but regarding your #1… the issue does not seem to affect every candidate MBP. But it is quite remarkable the number of replies this thread has received, despite the apparent need for a user to replace their hard drive for anyone to even have a chance to see the issue. And it seemed, when all the news sites were focused on Apple saying they'd fix the click/beep issue, many people in the comments on such articles seemed to be having an issue similar to this one instead. Add to that the reports some gave earlier in this thread about going through 3-5 logic boards or laptops with all of them showing the issue. You had some luck with your replacement (whether it was the logic board or the SATA cable), but it seems others have not. Then there's the matter of MBPs that came with EFI 1.7 pre-installed. Just going on memory here, but I believe people were reporting issues with these as well. It may be hit-or-miss issue, but it seems getting a "hit" isn't all that unlikely.

And, for #3, I applied the update after re-loading EFI 1.7 (to make sure I was still seeing the issue before checking for it again post-update). I've rolled back to EFI 1.6 already, and the update is still installed (of course), so when I get a free moment, I'll load EFI 1.7 again and see if anything's changed. If that doesn't work, I'll then see about loading a fresh Snow Leopard install on the original Apple hard drive (after another rollback, of course), load the update there, then update to EFI 1.7 again from that fresh install. That should give the best possible chance at success if your loading issue theory is true, shouldn't it? If that doesn't work, I may just spring for a SATA cable replacement as a last resort. I hope they're not too expensive.

I am very skeptical of this theory, however… if for no other reason than the number of people who have come here with recognizably different symptoms and finding resolution with different methods (HDAPM, for example) seems to suggest that there is more than one issue out there that looks similar enough for people to confuse them with this one (by "this one" I am referring to the one I see, with CRC errors and everything). I mean, it wasn't that long ago that we knew for certain there were multiple issues, when that click/beep issue was still ongoing (a lot of people over in that thread also seemed to be describing this issue).

I believe what is more likely than a unified theory of mis-loaded (yet functional) firmware, is that Performance Update 1.0 was released to fix a different issue that many people in this thread were seeing and confusing for "this one" (again, same definition). Heck, even if that's the case, who's to say if the original poster wasn't seeing that issue himself! But I'll monkey with this a bit more and see if magic happens. It's not like Apple is going to do anything instead.

Oh, I might add…

If this is a case of mis-loaded firmware… wouldn't at least as many (if not more) firmware rollbacks be affected than firmware upgrades? If a firmware load was to fail, I'd think it would be the one conducted when the interface is already problematic.

JoeyR & fishbert:

I have read both of your posts and all that I can say--the *Performance Update* and the *reinstall of EFI 1.7* over the back rolled EFI 1.6 Firmware worked for me.

Now by chance I did have my logic board replaced by my dealer the first time I ran into the problem--that is not being able to restart the MB Pro after the first EFI 1.7 Firmware update.

When I installed the software updates issued by Apple, I had no issues. However after repairing permissions and re-starting the MB Pro, I re-installed the EFI 1.7 Firmware update. The MB Pro immediately locked up again with my 500 GB Seagate SATA // drive installed two times.

When my dealer removed the 500 GB HD and re-installed the factory supplied 250 GB Hitachi drive, I as able to use the MB Pro at that time--but unfortunately I did not have my 500 GB drive which was purchased with the Laptop.

I was able to install and finally use the larger 500 GB HD only after the "back roll" to EFI 1.6.

When I got news of the *Performance Update*, I was reluctant to employ it but felt that I should check with Apple Care Support. They were the ones who were aware of this SATA // issue and suggested the EFI 1.7 "update" resolution to the "Roll Back" to the EFI 1.6 Firmware.

I had the Apple Rep on the phone while I did this--and all I can say is it worked for me. The Apple Rep himself was holding back installing a larger SATA // HD on his laptop, and he was aware the Apple Engineering support was working on this issue for a while. Now he also felt that he could upgrade his smaller HD based on my experience.

I could finally restart my MB Pro this time and could not restart the MB Pro the other two previous times that this EFI 1.7 was updated. *Previously my MB Pro Locked up*. It did not lock up this time, so it seems that the 3rd time finally worked--but it may have also been the *combination of the replaced Logic Board and the Performance Update.*

bobg

@Robert,

What i dont get in your post 1 page back is this:

*Model: ST9500420ASG*
*Revision: 0002SDM1*


How can you have Firmware "0002SDM1" with the ASG model? The ASG model has firmware 0006APM2 or 0007APM2.

I have here 2 x ST9500420AS harddisks of Apple on spare and both with firmware 0002SDM1.

Samplex wrote:
@Robert,

>
+> What i dont get in your post 1 page back is this:+
>
+> *Model: ST9500420ASG*+
+> *Revision: 0002SDM1*+
>
>
+> How can you have Firmware "0002SDM1" with the ASG model? The ASG model has firmware 0006APM2 or 0007APM2.+
>
+> I have here 2 x ST9500420AS harddisks of Apple on spare and both with firmware 0002SDM1.+

+Model: ST9500420ASG+
+Revision: 0002SDM1+

+How can you have Firmware "0002SDM1" with the ASG model? The ASG model has firmware 0006APM2 or 0007APM2.+

+I have here 2 x ST9500420AS harddisks of Apple on spare and both with firmware 0002SDM1.+

Samplex:

I do not know.

These are the items that I simply pasted from my Systems profiler.

I did paste some previous information from the same source location prior to the *Performance Update* and the *Re-install EFI 1.7 Firmware*.

Maybe there were changes.

I do not know.

bobg

Certainly not guaranteed to work as there are still a few unknowns in my resolution path.

The safest way to upgrade is to connect a HD via Firewire/USB (I used Firefire 800) and install a fresh SL onto it, update it, and start the upgrade from there.

This totally took the SATA bus out of the equation.

Best of luck and I hope you can find resolution as well!

Ollie.

Samplex wrote:
@Robert,

+> What i dont get in your post 1 page back is this:+
>
+> *Model: ST9500420ASG*+
+> *Revision: 0002SDM1*+
>
>
+> How can you have Firmware "0002SDM1" with the ASG model? The ASG model has firmware 0006APM2 or 0007APM2.+
>
+> I have here 2 x ST9500420AS harddisks of Apple on spare and both with firmware 0002SDM1.+


Simplex:

This is my previous System Profiler Info after the "Roll Back" to EFI 1.6:


Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro5,4
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.53 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 3 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP53.00AC.B02
SMC Version (system): 1.49f2
Serial Number (system): (XXXXXXXXX)
Hardware UUID: 961058BB-22A8-5F4C-A2DE-386511CF01C1
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Ena


The Seagate 500 GB HD info is listed below:

ST9500420ASG:

Capacity: 465.76 GB
Model: ST9500420ASG
Revision: 0002SDM1
Serial Number: (XXXXXXX)
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Mac OS 9 Drivers: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
RJG MBP:
Capacity: 465.44 GB
Available: 300.86 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount

Apparently this was the previous revision number which has not changed. Mine is a Seagate 3 party drive---not from Apple--but installed from my dealer.

bobg

Samplex wrote:
@Robert,

+> What i dont get in your post 1 page back is this:+
>
+> *Model: ST9500420ASG*+
+> *Revision: 0002SDM1*+
>
>
+> How can you have Firmware "0002SDM1" with the ASG model? The ASG model has firmware 0006APM2 or 0007APM2.+
>
+> I have here 2 x ST9500420AS harddisks of Apple on spare and both with firmware 0002SDM1.+


Simplex:

This is my previous System Profiler Info after the "Roll Back" to EFI 1.6:


Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro5,4
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.53 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 3 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP53.00AC.B02
SMC Version (system): 1.49f2
Serial Number (system): (XXXXXXXXX)
Hardware UUID: 961058BB-22A8-5F4C-A2DE-386511CF01C1
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Ena


The Seagate 500 GB HD info is listed below:

ST9500420ASG:

Capacity: 465.76 GB
Model: ST9500420ASG
Revision: 0002SDM1
Serial Number: (XXXXXXX)
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Mac OS 9 Drivers: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
RJG MBP:
Capacity: 465.44 GB
Available: 300.86 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount

Apparently this was the previous revision number which has not changed. Mine is a Seagate 3 party drive---not from Apple--but installed from my dealer.

bobg

Oliver F wrote:
Certainly not guaranteed to work as there are still a few unknowns in my resolution path.

The safest way to upgrade is to connect a HD via Firewire/USB (I used Firefire 800) and install a fresh SL onto it, update it, and start the upgrade from there.

This totally took the SATA bus out of the equation.

Best of luck and I hope you can find resolution as well!

Ollie.

Well, I gave EFI 1.7 another go on my internal drive (as it had EFI 1.6 + PU 1.0)… no dice.

So I rolled back, grabbed the original drive from Apple (in a firewire external enclosure), installed Snow Leopard on it fresh (clean install, not an upgrade), Software Updated everything except EFI 1.7 and Performance Update 1.0, rebooted, installed Performance Update 1.0, rebooted, tried EFI 1.7 again. Pretty much exactly what you suggested above. Booted back into my internal drive (wouldn't see any funny business over the firewire anyway)… exactly the same problem.

I tried abut 4 or 5 more upgrade/rollback cycles mixing it up with the external and internal drives… no dice. I can even tell which firmware is loaded when I reboot because EFI 1.7 seems to take much longer at the gray Apple logo screen.

In a way, it's too bad yours was fixed with a hardware swap… I suspect you'd be seeing much the same as I, since you were also seeing CRC errors under EFI 1.7 on yours.

Okay, so I was perfectly fine until EFI 1.7 came out (I may have an altogether issue entirely.) So when 1.7 came out, I got the 30 second beach balls during hard disk activity. hdapm only seemed to make it worse. Even a roll back to 1.6 didn't solve the problem (it seemed to alter the length of the beach ball cases, but the quantity was seemingly even greater.) Anyways, I upgraded to 1.7, then downgraded to 1.6 and then *zapped the pram immediately on the first boot*. For some reason, this seemed to make a huge difference. I installed the performance update and then the 1.7 and have gone a week with absolutely no issue even though I've used my HD extensively since then. My MBP is back to the level of consistency it had when I purchased it at EFI 1.6 levels. Hope this helps someone else!

One thing to consider is that, having installed the Performance Update, the rollback tool did not work for me. I have used it to rollback twice before but now it doesn't work. Now this might just be an issue I have or it might indicate that the new update made changes that somehow impact on the firmware.

On October 13th, the Apple Store in Providence RI
replaced my faulty Seagate 500g 7200 HD

now i am on OSX 10.6.1

and since then i have had no problems
and *i have NOT installed the recent performance update.*

_before on the old HD ( circa june 2009 ) i was running OSX 10.5.8_
_and in October i installed the firmware update_
_which only increased my problems_


The people in the Apple Store ( at the mall ) in Providence RI
are always creative thinkers & efficient problem solvers
it is a pleasure to stop in there !

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro5,2
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP52.008E.B05
SMC Version (system): 1.42f4
Serial Number (system): W8924*8YB
Hardware UUID: A438CB6E-9686-5F96-B61C-57695FAEF97B
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Enabled

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ST9500420ASG:

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)
Model: ST9500420ASG
Revision: 0007APM2
Serial Number: 5VJ*H3<Edited by Host>
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Rotational Rate: 7200
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry to hear that !

So its pretty much confirmed that its a hit and miss HW issue.
I think your only option will be to insist on a Logic Board Swap.

Me (and others) running fine with 1.7 is not good news as that probably means that there will be no way to fix this in another FW upgrade.

I was planning to get another MBP for my girlfriend, but I will definitely wait now until either they move on to the next HW refresh or somehow they officially do something about this.

Ollie

Insisting on a logic board swap is not going to work (not with my local Apple Store, anyway). The best I can do is probably a SATA cable replacement… and on my own dime, at that.

Whatever the root cause is of these problems, as more and more time goes by without a word from Apple, I become more resigned to having to wait until the next model is released, then selling this one and trying to make the price difference as small as possible.

Then again, that's what I did with my last unibody, as I wanted to be able to use 8GB eventually (and the last models would not, despite the NVIDIA chipset supporting it). It's getting expensive trying to find a unibody model that doesn't have some kind of shortcoming.