Q: Firmware update and SATA II hard drive

Snow Leopard could resolve the issue if the issue is not purely hardware.

I've seen no confirmation from Apple or any reputable source that the firmware update is the sole problem. It is quite possible that the firmware is just fine, but resulted in instability elsewhere.

Apple is known to sneak in capabilities not yet supported by current systems. It's not a stretch to hope that perhaps the instability is an oversight of new hardware that Leopard doesn't quite support, but Snow Leopard will.

This is Apple we're talking about - not Microsoft. These systems are tightly integrated, and the current generation of MacBooks are engineered for Snow Leopard.

We'll know for sure in two days.

+*It's not a stretch to hope that perhaps the instability is an oversight of new hardware that Leopard doesn't quite support, but Snow Leopard will.*+

The chipset (and SATA controller) in the mid 2009 MacBook Pros is the same as the previous unibody MacBook/MacBook Pro. Those machines ran fine in SATA 3.0 mode under Leopard. The mid 2009 machines were shipped in 1.5 mode for an unknown reason. After much outcry, Apple released the 1.7 firmware update specifically to address this issue and enable SATA 3.0 mode. This firmware update is what caused the problem which this thread covers. Due to the tons of comments here and spreading notoriety of the problem, I would expect if the problem could have been fixed via a software update, it would have been. The fact that they pushed out the 1.7 update just a few weeks after the machines came out in order to address the 1.5 mode issue... but have not been able to resolve the resulting problems from that update for months now would lead one to believe the problem is more involved than just a simple software update. But... we'll find out soon enough.

This is not an OS problem. For me, my drive isn't even recognized by EFI without a PRAM reset EVERY TIME. Even if I intend to boot into Windows via Bootcamp, the problem persists. If I move the drive to an external enclosure, it works fine.

This is a Firmware/Hardware problem. I expect the only solution will be a mainboard replacement.

it seems like Apple doesn't really care unless they get a class action is launched

will our MBP be slow if the SSD works under EFI 1.6 which limits the bandwidth to 1.5 Gb ?

does it still make sense to have a SSD at this speed ??

Everyone is an engineer. =-)

I've worked in technology long enough to know that anything is possible and nothing is certain.

Noraa Haras - my Patriot Torqx SSD was not recognized at all by my brand new MBP either. The boot loader froze up every time - wouldn't even boot to OSX install DVD with the drive installed.

However, I figured out a solution and I've been using my new MBP with the SSD 8-10 hours per day, with no hiccups, for three straight weeks now.

No, my MBP is not special, it had the same problems everyone else has experienced. It was just a pain to get it working.

I'm not going to keep detailing my process - just look at my post history. I explained it in detail a couple weeks ago.

Funny how firmware - not software - has so many problems until you set the disk up and run Software Update on an older machine. Strange those software updates... updating the OS... must be magic.

Hard drives will not saturate the bandwidth of even SATA 1.5. An SSD will peak at around just over that. Your MacBook certainly won't be "slow". In fact, even at SATA 1.5, your SSD will provide better performance than a HDD. Does it make sense? That is something you will need to determine. You still get the solid-state benefit with an SSD. You just need to determine if the improved performance and reliability outweigh the limited capacity and price.

****..

i only received my MBP13 3 weeks ago and already had exchanged by Apple within the same week because the screen was horrible, now that i'm fully happy with it, except for this EFI 1.7 thing

i would be very frustrated to have stuck in a service center for a week or more just to it downgraded to EFI 1.6

unless it can be done within minutes...

if so, i'll bring my MBP to a service center to have downgraded

thx

This interesting snippet is in the README file for Intel's newest (August 09) firmware update package:

*2. "Drive not recognized" on Nvidia chipset based Macintosh systems.*

*ISSUE: The firmware update tool may not recognize Intel 50nm SSDs with 8610 FW when used on some Nvidia chipset based systems including the Nvidia based Mac systems.*

FWIW, as I have posted earlier, my MBP works flawlessly with my 50nm Intel X25-M.

YMMV, of course.

My guess is the chipset has some issues that may be hidden until you push the system hard in I/O, or run the system hot or maybe just if you run a HD/SSD that is not "validated". One reason why "Macs just work" is usually the hardware is standardized.

Yes, I know some people have issues with stock or BTO configurations.

A few years ago when I built my own desktop computers I always stuck with Intel processors and Intel chipsets. I never had much success with "third-party" chipsets.

I wonder sometimes if the MBP chipset is adequately cooled.

I wonder why Intel has to publish that their firmware tool might not recognize the drive. In their PDF instructions they tell you to remove the drive and put it in a system that does not have a Nvidia chipset so you can run the tool. Why would a standardized SATA2 interface not recognize a SATA2 drive?

theARGIOPE wrote:
Everyone is an engineer. =-)

I've worked in technology long enough to know that anything is possible and nothing is certain.

People suffering this issue, including myself, have upgraded to Snow Leopard and found it makes no difference to the problem. So it's not a case of everyone assuming they're an engineer, it's a case of feeding back real world experience.

As for your 'fix' this proves nothing. Given the intermittent and inconsistent nature of the problem all your fix shows is that you were probably suffering from a different issue.

Well....well...

The service center here in Brazil was not be able to install my 500GB 7200RPM Hard Drive....ha!

I expected that...

I called apple support here in Brazil...told my problem.... they called to USA support, and i talked with USA Support technician...

Well, basically my computer can't be replaced because it have more than 30 days of existence...ha!

And, the technician told me that apple knows about this firmware problem and they will fix.... BUT, we have to wait...because they don't know when they will launch this firmware fix...

Ok guys!!! Everybody here with the same problem...with 500GB, 250GB, SSD hard drives, caused by this EFI Firmware 1.7 will have to wait Apple launch the update...

So, it's confirmed that is a firmware issue, i think is not other hardware issue, because if was, the guy of apple would asked to me if i would like to replace...

Apple only replace computers with more than 30 days, if they present more than 1 hardware or multiple hardware problem...

Let's wait the update!!

Regards!

Tiago.

vang0001 wrote:

I wonder sometimes if the MBP chipset is adequately cooled.

That is exactly what i said at page 26 after some test with a tool to set fan speed to max...

vang0001 wrote:
My guess is the chipset has some issues that may be hidden until you push the system hard in I/O, or run the system hot or maybe just if you run a HD/SSD that is not "validated". One reason why "Macs just work" is usually the hardware is standardized.

I wonder sometimes if the MBP chipset is adequately cooled.

The issue is demonstrably not heat-related. This has been discussed before.
The issue is also not chipset-related, as the 17" MBP and the more recent 2008 15" MBP share the same chipsets, yet do not exhibit this issue.

The only identified constant is having version 1.7 EFI firmware.

{quote:title=bobrudge wrote:}
As for your 'fix' this proves nothing. Given the intermittent and inconsistent nature of the problem all your fix shows is that you were probably suffering from a different issue.
{quote}

Wow... you got me. My feelings are hurt and I'm going to go cry.

Of course, you prove my point by suggesting my issues differ from others with very similar if not identical scenarios. (Are you an Apple engineer?)

This thread is here for customers to help each other out. I found something that worked, and I shared it. Are you going to contribute anything, or just continue to disqualify everyone who discovers something useful?