Q: Firmware update and SATA II hard drive

answer from Crucial on FB:


Crucial Memory commented on your wall post:

"Our lab has successfully installed our SSD on the new 13" Macbook Pro with EFI 1.7. You have to make sure you go into Disk Utility and partition the drive using GUID and Mac OS Extended (Journaled). When physically installing the drive into the system, make sure that the ribbon cable is staying connected to the logic board, and that you are seating the connector fully to the SSD."

theARGIOPE wrote:
{quote:title=bobrudge wrote:}
As for your 'fix' this proves nothing. Given the intermittent and inconsistent nature of the problem all your fix shows is that you were probably suffering from a different issue.
{quote}

Wow... you got me. My feelings are hurt and I'm going to go cry.

Of course, you prove my point by suggesting my issues differ from others with very similar if not identical scenarios. (Are you an Apple engineer?)

This thread is here for customers to help each other out. I found something that worked, and I shared it. Are you going to contribute anything, or just continue to disqualify everyone who discovers something useful?

I think what's safe to say is that, if you have the same drive, it can't hurt to try that method. But, you probably shouldn't go out and buy the same drive, expecting that method to make it play nice as well.

can a CMAA downgrade the EFI to 1.6 ?

Jerry H. wrote:
answer from Crucial on FB:


Crucial Memory commented on your wall post:

"Our lab has successfully installed our SSD on the new 13" Macbook Pro with EFI 1.7. You have to make sure you go into Disk Utility and partition the drive using GUID and Mac OS Extended (Journaled). When physically installing the drive into the system, make sure that the ribbon cable is staying connected to the logic board, and that you are seating the connector fully to the SSD."

A lot of people could say the same thing about a lot of drives... and a lot of other people could say those same drives haven't worked for them. This issue is not drive-dependent, and what they said looks an awful lot like a standard boilerplate response.

Buyer beware, until Apple fixes the broken firmware.

???

I truly believe that Apple has stuck themselves between a rock and a hard place regarding this issue. They have a 64 page long thread of complaints about the EfI firmware update and SATAII drives (which they don't support) and if they supply a fix then they will be seen to be supporting SATAII and make it more difficult to refuse SATAII support the next time an issue arises. However, they can't continue to ignore this thread either. Eventually, this is going to start hurting their image (especially if we can ever get this issue covered by some tech websites. In my opinion, Apple is going to have to officially support SATAII soon.

@Fishbert....I completely agree with your statement. This issue is impossible to pin on specific drives since it effects each drive differently. I have a Seagate ST9500420AS 500Gb 7200 rpm drive that I cannot even install OSX on. I know of others with the exact same drive with the same HD firmware as mine and the same date of assembly who are able to install the drive, install OSX and have no problems whatsoever. it's not the individual drives that are the problem. It's the EFI firmware 1.7 update.

The problem is that we shouldn't need to identify which drives may or may not work. They either properly implement SATA mode 3.0 or they don't. If it is properly implemented to meet the standard, if a drive does not work, you know the problem is with the drive. Obviously all of those having problems don't have faulty drives... they have a faulty SATA 3.0 implementation. SATA 3.0 isn't a new technology... it has been around for years now. This is like saying "We will only support your machine if you get your power from Cupertino Power and Light". Just like the electricity that comes from your outlet is a standard, SATA is a standard. Something shouldn't need to be done to the drive to make it compatible with the MacBooks SATA... the MacBooks SATA needs to be fixed to be compatible with the standard.

Hello!

I think nobody read my last post....

Apple know about the firmware problem... and know that this problem is affecting people all around the world...

And apple will launch the firmware update, the only problem is WHEN?????

I'll try to replace my Macbook... will see...

Regards!

Tiago.

That's not an answer. I have the Crucial SSD and their instructions to format the drive and ensure the cable is connected are the most basic steps that I took when I first encountered the problem. I have had 3 Crucial SSDs, I correctly formatted them and installed them all and each of them froze my system within a minute of booting. This is not a sufficient answer and I'll be telling Crucial that.

Tiago Cruz wrote:
Hello!

I think nobody read my last post....
Apple know about the firmware problem... and know that this problem is affecting people all around the world...
And apple will launch the firmware update, the only problem is WHEN?????
I'll try to replace my Macbook... will see...

Tiago Cruz wrote:
Well....well...
The service center here in Brazil was not be able to install my 500GB 7200RPM Hard Drive....ha!
I expected that...

I called apple support here in Brazil...told my problem.... they called to USA support, and i talked with USA Support technician...
Well, basically my computer can't be replaced because it have more than 30 days of existence...ha!
And, the technician told me that apple knows about this firmware problem and they will fix.... BUT, we have to wait...because they don't know when they will launch this firmware fix...

Apple has not officially acknowledged the issue, let alone said they will fix it. The local technician was (probably) guessing, and what he/she says can't really be considered an official statement from Apple.

Ok guys!!! Everybody here with the same problem...with 500GB, 250GB, SSD hard drives, caused by this EFI Firmware 1.7 will have to wait Apple launch the update...
So, it's confirmed that is a firmware issue, i think is not other hardware issue, because if was, the guy of apple would asked to me if i would like to replace...
Apple only replace computers with more than 30 days, if they present more than 1 hardware or multiple hardware problem...

Replacing hardware does not fix this issue (unless you get a logic board with the old 1.6 firmware). The only thing that can be done at this time is to downgrade the firmware to version 1.6... which any Apple Store should be able to do.

After 8 weeks, 7 calls to Apple support - 1 hour each, 3 trips to the Authorized Service Center, 1 Logic Board swap I got a final call from a gentleman telling me outright and very firmly that Apple's Engineering position is that only Apple drives (Limited to SATA I) are supported and that they know that 3rd party drives have issues.

Excerpt from my Manual:
"You can upgrade the hard disk drive in your MacBook Pro. When you open the back of your MacBook Pro, the hard disk drive is located next to the built-in battery. The replacement drive must be a 2.5-inch drive with a _Serial ATA (SATA)_ connector."

In no place I have found a remark that I am limited to Apple drives only.

I have requested:
- List of supported drives
- Written statement that the Macbook Pro 2009 does not support SATA II drives
- Where it is stated that not all SATA standard compliant drives are supported

I am a loyal customer and will continue to be one IF this issue is finaly addressed in a satisfactory way.

Satisfactory meaning:
Either a solution which allows me to use industry standard SATA II drives in my Macbook or a refund of my purchase so I can buy a Macbook when the next generation is out.

The verdict is out while I am waiting for a reply.

If this specific Apple employee will continue to give me attitude in the worst possible way, I have documented the whole process of the last few weeks with names, times and statements and will for one start a claim with the small claims tribunal and second will ensure that these details find their way to the relevant press so other consumers are aware that they are paying big bucks for a technology wise inferior system compared to the 2008 MacBooks Pro that had no issue with SATA II.

Please post your results from your support calls so we understand how these are handled in your specific cases.

Message was edited by: Oliver F

Oliver F wrote:
After 8 weeks, 7 calls to Apple support - 1 hour each, 3 trips to the Authorized Service Center, 1 Logic Board swapp I got a final call from a gentleman telling me outright and very firmly that Apple's Engineering position is that only Apple drives are supported and that they know that 3rd party drives have issues.

Excerpt from my Manual:
"You can upgrade the hard disk drive in your MacBook Pro. When you open the back of your MacBook Pro, the hard disk drive is located next to the built-in battery. The replacement drive must be a 2.5-inch drive with a _Serial ATA (SATA)_ connector."

I no place I have found a remark that I am limited to Apple drives only.

I have requested:
- List of supported drives
- Written statement that the Macbook Pro 2009 does not support SATA II drives
- Where it is stated that not all SATA standard compliant drives are supported

I am a loyal customer and will continue to be one IF this issue is finaly addressed in a satisfactory way.

Satisfactory meaning:
Either a solution which allows me to use industry standard SATA II drives in my Macbook or a refund of my purchase so I can buy a Macbook when the next generation is out.

The verdict is out while I am waiting for a reply.

If this specific Apple employee will continue to give me attitude in the worst possible way, I have documented the whole process of the last few weeks with names, times and statements and will for one start a claim with the small claims tribunal and second will ensure that these details find their way to the relevant press so other consumers are aware that they are paying big bucks for a technology wise inferior system compared to the 2008 MacBooks Pro that had no issue with SATA II.

Completely agree with the sentiment!

But you need to be careful about your use of the word "support" ...

Apple will not (and cannot be expected to) support 3rd party hard drives. As in, if you put a drive you got from Best Buy and there are problems, Apple won't fix your drive from Best Buy.

Now, here's the wrinkle: Apple should (and absolutely should be expected to) support their own product's SATA II interface, or at the very least be up-front with customers about the limitations of their product with regards to user-upgradable part compatibility.

If Apple takes a chipset that features a standard SATA II interface (a very basic interface, featured in even $300 netbooks)... then cripples that standard interface to half speed without telling anyone... then un-cripples it with a firmware update that leaves the standard interface broken to a great many people who replaced an advertised as "user-replaceable" part... this is a dishonest business practice, and is in no small way an abuse of their customer base.

Now, Apple's get-out-of-jail-cheaply card is to feign ignorance to the fact this is a problem with their hardware's interface and say "oh, 3rd party hard drive... we don't support 3rd party drives!" This is a very short-sighted way of conducting business, because you're saving some dollars while sacrificing your reputation with affected customers. Not a problem if the affected customers are small in number or adverse to courtrooms, but it becomes more of a problem as more people become aware of the shady behavior.

This is why it is absolutely critical that those affected with this issue do all they can to spread the word and draw attention to it. There are many people out there who are affected by this firmware issue, but who do not realize it; I see them all the time in comments about the click/beep issue - an issue that was addressed after it received wide public attention.

So get out there, people, and write Apple some feedback, contact Mac-centric news outlets... ****, send an email to the Consumerist. Make some noise!

IanBurrell wrote:
Has anybody had any problems with new MacBook Pro after yesterday's firmware update with third party hard drive?

Hey, Ian... you're famous. =)
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/06/26/macbookfirmware_drivefailure/

Hello Fishbert and other ones!!!

I agree with you... But, what we can do? I just see few alternatives...

1) Wait new firmware update
2) Downgrade the firmware to 1.6 (service center here told me that is not possible to do it here...ha!)
3) Feedback to Apple (I already did...think many people did too)
4) Make noise...i agree... if 90% or 100% of people that is having this problem request new macbook or request money back, we can do a "lot of noise in apple head" Do you agree?
5) It's clearly that the problem occurs not only with third party drives. My Hitachi HD that came with MCP freezes... So people have to stop say that apple don't have to support third party, when the real problem occurs with apple hardware...

I'll request new macbook without this problem or my money back (wich if i do that i'll have huge headcache, because i bought my MCP in NY and bring it to Brazil...)

I saw that many people gone to apple support and their problems aren't fixed.

So guys, anybody know or want to shre your opinion in WHAT WE HAVE TO DO???

Regards!

Can someone summarize for me the full list of known affected computers from Apple?

Is it just the portable computers (MacBook / MacBook Air / MacBook Pro 13" 15" 17") ? Mac Mini? iMac? Mac Pro? Current generation models only?

We are preparing an editorial piece on this issue. We have a couple of the affected machines ourselves to report the issue accurately. But it would be useful to see how wide and extensive this defect might be across the entire Apple computer product line.