Spotlight and Logic

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Level 6

10,900 points

Spotlight and Logic

So... Spotlight. This is a post I've been wanting to write for a while - everytime I use Spotlight to do what should be a simple task (find some files) and have it fail spectacularly every time, and it bugs me everytime.

So, maybe I'm misunderstanding what it's supposed to do, or using it wrong, or configuring it badly. I'd be interested in other people's experiences.

(I know Spotlight is a set of technologies, and not merely a file finding tool, but most users practical front end to Spotlight is file search, so...)

Ok, so Spotlight has indexed my main drive, and my other drives, all up to date. Great. Now, I understand Spotlight won't index your system files (this alone is annoying enough, because I would like it to index some of my system content - eg, plugin component files, Logic app support files and so on). Alright, that's the first thing it fails at, but I understand why, and have developed workarounds (quick aliases to that content, and so forth).

Ok. Onto something that should be less challenging for a file finding utility.

I load a song, and Logic can't find an impulse response file, and prompts for the location. Easy enough - the file finder has a spotlight search built right in, all I need to do is type the name, or part name, of the impulse file I need to locate, right? Ok, I do that - no results.

I open up a finder window, hit command-F to go into Spotlight Find mode. This can't find it either. (Filename search, filetype any, partial name match.) This file doesn't exist. And yet, oh look, there it is, on my external drive in my impulses directory.

Let's try another method. List all the files that have a file extension of "SDIR". Oh look - the file I'm looking for is there - so Spotlight knows about it. Why can't it find it on a name search?

This is also the same for sample content. These are just audio files, on an external drive, but still can't be found by the usual search methods. Display all my wav or CAF files - yes. Find me "12 String Dream" - oh look, it seems to not exist as far as Spotlight is concerned.

Honestly, everytime I need to locate a missing file that Spotlight should quickly and easily find, it fails spectacularly in a way that makes me get rather frustrated.

Spotlight - a File Finding Tool that Can't Find Files?

Now it's your opportunity to show me my own ignorance and teach me the blindingly obvious... 🙂

Rosebook Pro, Logic Studio, SD3, AMT8, MCU, LCXmu, Keymap, Mac OS X (10.5.7), SitTight Spotlight, Something's NotRight

Posted on Jun 25, 2009 12:19 PM

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Answer 1

Jun 25, 2009 1:57 PM in response to Bee Jay

It totally baffles me too. When I put it a name to search, it brings up tons of unrelated files. When I try to narrow it to a certain folder, it ignores it.. I gave up on it..

Yes, it should work perfectly.. Has it something to do with 'not journaling'? I've shut that off, per advice of many because of using Logic

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Answer 2

Jun 25, 2009 2:47 PM in response to Bee Jay

I sympathize - I gave up on Spotlight for real searching, except for finding strings inside documents or email archives.

I use this, mostly:

http://apps.tempel.org/FindAnyFile/

And it's free.

Using your example of an .SDIR, you get a helpful display showing the location and where any duplicates are, like this:

searching for contains …Jazz Vocals…

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Answer 3

Eriksimon

Level 6

15,428 points

Jun 25, 2009 2:55 PM in response to Bee Jay

Bee Jay wrote:
So... Spotlight. This is a post I've been wanting to write for a while - everytime I use Spotlight to do what should be a simple task (find some files) and have it fail spectacularly every time, and it bugs me everytime.

So, maybe I'm misunderstanding what it's supposed to do, or using it wrong, or configuring it badly. I'd be interested in other people's experiences.

(I know Spotlight is a set of technologies, and not merely a file finding tool, but most users practical front end to Spotlight is file search, so...)

Ok, so Spotlight has indexed my main drive, and my other drives, all up to date. Great. Now, I understand Spotlight won't index your system files (this alone is annoying enough, because I would like it to index some of my system content - eg, plugin component files, Logic app support files and so on).

I think it only won't index the System folder itself - fair enough. But you can search the top & User Libraries using Spotlight, though that took me a long time to figure out how... Annoyingly and idiotically if you tell SL to search a whole disk, it skips the top library, and the User Libraries... You have to navigate your window to those, and then it can find files in there. But if I tell SL to search a whole disk, I also want it to search both libraries. And that is/appears impossible. The even more annoying thing is that there is no real possibility to set your own user prefs for SL, other than by saving searches. Its System PrefPanel is next to useless.

I opened my User account Library in a new window. I typed in my search string (see pic 1). Now the first thing that is annoying is that Spotlight finds it necessary to default to looking in "This Mac" first, and by *file content* - so if I want to look by file NAME in the Library, I'll have to click the two buttons "library" and "File Name" first. Not possible to let it default to whatever chosen window (in this case Library) and "File name", no, two buttons to click first - always.
The potential of Spotlight seems to be there (it'll always find my Kontakt & EXS samples in a jiffy), but the lack of simple settings makes it actually feel like cheap software. Aimed too much at consumer use, without any simple little setup program telling it to look everywhere and to let me set the defaults...

then, after clicking the two buttons: there we have the lost .plist!

There is no way to let Spotlight search for something in one search action, which is weird and also not good at all.

Alright, that's the first thing it fails at, but I understand why, and have developed workarounds (quick aliases to that content, and so forth).

Ok. Onto something that should be less challenging for a file finding utility.

I load a song, and Logic can't find an impulse response file, and prompts for the location. Easy enough - the file finder has a spotlight search built right in, all I need to do is type the name, or part name, of the impulse file I need to locate, right? Ok, I do that - no results.

I open up a finder window, hit command-F to go into Spotlight Find mode. This can't find it either. (Filename search, filetype any, partial name match.) This file doesn't exist. And yet, oh look, there it is, on my external drive in my impulses directory.

Navigate to that disk and start the 'search', it'll probably find it this time... I guess you and me and lots of other serious users would like a bit more insight and control over SL than there is now...

Let's try another method. List all the files that have a file extension of "SDIR". Oh look - the file I'm looking for is there - so Spotlight knows about it. Why can't it find it on a name search?

Because it is stupid? The user certainly cannot do a thing about it...

This is also the same for sample content. These are just audio files, on an external drive, but still can't be found by the usual search methods. Display all my wav or CAF files - yes. Find me "12 String Dream" - oh look, it seems to not exist as far as Spotlight is concerned.

It seems overfocused on filetypes and underfocused on simple namesearching. Again, if you navigate 'closer' to the file, Spotlight will eventually find it... handy eh?

Honestly, everytime I need to locate a missing file that Spotlight should quickly and easily find, it fails spectacularly in a way that makes me get rather frustrated.

Bottom line: it feels unreliable. Out of control. We need a search-whisperer, a teacher to Enspotlight us.

Spotlight - a File Finding Tool that Can't Find Files?

Nice Headline. A bit "Time magaziney".

Now it's your opportunity to show me my own ignorance and teach me the blindingly obvious... 🙂

I want Floodlight !

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Answer 4

Bee Jay Author

Level 6

10,900 points

Jun 25, 2009 2:53 PM in response to John Alcock

Thanks for the responses so far.

John - thanks for the recommendation, I'll certainly give that a try. In my ideal world, I'd like a Spotlight that behaves how I'd expect - especially as it's built-in to the file dialog - a potentially useful function is crippled in usability. I think Apple had a great idea with Spotlight, but kinda gave up on the top level user interface onto it - that's what it feels like to me, anyway.

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Answer 5

Jun 25, 2009 2:58 PM in response to Eriksimon

Nice explanation, Erik.

We need a search-whisperer, a teacher to Enspotlight us.

I think there was one, once. Sherlock, and later, Watson did searches very effectively, but then I think Apple absorbed or mimicked their functions, and as you say, dumbed it down so it was aimed more at new users and lost some of flexibility and power in the process.

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Answer 6

Jun 25, 2009 3:01 PM in response to Bee Jay

In my ideal world, I'd like a Spotlight that behaves how I'd expect

Well, yes, that would be nice.

But you're a Logic guru - you should know better 😉 (and expect less?)

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Answer 7

Bee Jay Author

Level 6

10,900 points

Jun 25, 2009 3:03 PM in response to Eriksimon

You have to navigate your window to those, and then it can find files in there

Ok, so if I just do a filename search on "this mac", are you saying that it won't by default look on external drives? That you have to browse a finder window to the external drive, and then start the search function?

That's a good illustration of how poor the Spotlight find implementation is - not just that it works this way, but there's very little UI feedback to inform you of what's happening.

Ok, let's give this a try - finder window on MyAudio drive, enable find, file name search on "MyAudio" - nope, still doesn't find my search file.

Now the first thing that is annoying is that Spotlight finds it necessary to default to looking in "This Mac" first, and by file content - so if I want to look by file NAME in the Library

Yeah I know, I'm pretty much always doing a name search, not a content search. In the whole scheme of things, this wouldn't bother me if the find actually worked. But it doesn't for me.

I think perhaps Spotlight is really supposed to be used for content and meta searches, rather than a filename search. If that's the case - why have a file name option in there in the first place.

*Note - I realise this is hopelessly off-topic, but it is Logic related because the reason this cropped up for me is tracking down Logic content - so I hope the mods bear with me.*

The potential of Spotlight seems to be there (it'll always find my Kontakt & EXS samples in a jiffy)

You see, it doesn't even do this for me. 😟 Even if I point the thing at my samples drive. Even if I drill down into my samples directories!

Navigate to that disk and start the 'search', it'll probably find it this time...

It doesn't.

It seems overfocused on filetypes and underfocused on simple namesearching.

Yeah. I had a look at the Spotlight docs, to see whether I had to actually create new Spotlight importers for SDIR files and whatnot, before they get indexed. But this does require specialised dev knowledge, it's not trivial, and no end-user is going to do this anyway, so I kind resented spending time on it.

Well so far, good to know I'm not missing something dramatically obvious. It seems that it simply isn't well-suited to the task I wanted to use it for. I don't know whether that's my fault or a poor implementation (or maybe both.)

I think maybe it's time to give up on Spotlight for this task. I just didn't really want to add my samples folders to Launchbar's database and search it that way due to the size of it, but maybe it's the way forward...

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Answer 8

Bee Jay Author

Level 6

10,900 points

Jun 25, 2009 3:07 PM in response to John Alcock

you should know better (and expect less?)

Perhaps. But I'm still of the attitude where if something seems horrendously poorly implemented, I will first assume it's my fault - a lack of understanding, or I'm doing something incorrectly, before pointing fingers at something else.

Sometimes, something seems so bad it's difficult to believe it actually works that way...

I should point out that:-

except for finding strings inside documents or email archives

It does actually work pretty well for these type of things, so it's not all bad...

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Answer 9

Bee Jay Author

Level 6

10,900 points

Jun 25, 2009 3:13 PM in response to Bee Jay

Thanks for the pointer to that utility. It works as I'd expect and finds the files I need to find, so that will come in handy - especially if I can perform searches from Launchbar. It's a bit clunky, but works well enough.

Definitely one for the utilities folder - cheers! You've saved me some sanity 😉

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Answer 10

Caramby

Level 4

1,523 points

Jun 25, 2009 3:25 PM in response to Bee Jay

I've complained about this many, many times (mostly to geeky friends who consider my complaints water off a duck's back).

But the first thing you want from a search tool is for it to find files that fit your search. False positives are fine; then you can whittle. False negatives are unacceptable.

You should not have to learn arcane techniques in order to find a file which is there in plain view. If you can't find a file, the natural conclusion is that the file must not be there; if that isn't true (& the file is there) then the tool has failed. Replying "ah, but you didn't say the magic words in the right order using the secret combination" is no consolation & a feeble excuse.

Is Spotlight an Evil Genie? Does it grant our wishes, but with a twist?

(And yes, the default should be filenames, not content.)

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Answer 11

Eriksimon

Level 6

15,428 points

Jun 25, 2009 4:37 PM in response to Bee Jay

Bee Jay wrote:

You have to navigate your window to those, and then it can find files in there

Ok, so if I just do a filename search on "this mac", are you saying that it won't by default look on external drives? That you have to browse a finder window to the external drive, and then start the search function?

Well, I just tried it out and it seems to find any item on all my four disks, except for what is in the Libraries. It can find any sample on all disks, it seems.

That's a good illustration of how poor the Spotlight find implementation is - not just that it works this way, but there's very little UI feedback to inform you of what's happening.

Right.

Ok, let's give this a try - finder window on MyAudio drive, enable find, file name search on "MyAudio" - nope, still doesn't find my search file.

Well, it should, actually... have you tried reinstalling Leopard? 😉
Maybe tell Onyx to kick out all Spotlight indeces and let your Mac (MDworker?) reindex everything while you are asleep, or lunching, or something. Although I suspect your machine takes less time than mine, I also suspect it has a lot more to index than mine had... 🙂 Anyway, let us know if you could find your samples after the reindexing ( if you decide to try it of course).

Regards, Erik.

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Answer 12

Bee Jay Author

Level 6

10,900 points

Jun 25, 2009 4:50 PM in response to Eriksimon

Well, I just tried it out and it seems to find any item on all my four disks, except for what is in the Libraries. It can find any sample on all disks, it seems.

Yeah, I tried it to with varying combinations of search parameters, and it doesn't happen for me. Dunno what would be different, other than the indexes getting fupped (that's my new word of the month 😉 ).

Maybe tell Onyx to kick out all Spotlight indeces and let your Mac (MDworker?) reindex everything while you are asleep, or lunching, or something

Yeah, not willing to go there yet - mdworker really works the machine hard and bogs it down for, well, ages. Maybe at some point in the future I'll go there and reindex everything, and see whether the behaviour changes.

Can you try something for me? Stick a bunch of the Logic SDIR impulses in your same drive. Does your spotlight name search find those for you there?

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Answer 13

Eriksimon

Level 6

15,428 points

Jun 25, 2009 5:38 PM in response to Bee Jay

Bee Jay wrote:
Can you try something for me? Stick a bunch of the Logic SDIR impulses in your same drive. Does your spotlight name search find those for you there?

same drive? You mean to any drive they are not on now?
If you do, I did, and it does. In the Finder, that is.

In Logic, SD doesn't even flinch. I copied the folder 'gated reverb' to another disk (simply top level) and deleted the original from Library>Audio>Impulse Responses>Small Spaces>Gated Reverb. I started Logic, opened SD, and all presets were in its menu, and loaded flawlessly...

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Answer 14

Pancenter

Level 6

14,788 points

Jun 26, 2009 12:56 AM in response to Bee Jay

I have to admit giving up on Spotlight pretty quickly and started using a simple free utility named "Easyfind", it never misses a file and is predictable.
http://www.devon-technologies.com/products/freeware/index.html

I let spotlight index my drives then purchased a utility that shuts it off on a per drive basis. Every once in a while I activate it and let it re-index then shut it back off, it least it doesn't decide to start thrashing my drives when I least expect it.

pancenter-

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Answer 15

Bee Jay Author

Level 6

10,900 points

Jun 26, 2009 2:24 AM in response to Pancenter

I have to admit giving up on Spotlight pretty quickly and started using a simple free utility named "Easyfind", it never misses a file and is predictable.

Another good one - thanks for the tip...

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