iCal + Time Zones + Date/Time=Confused

Brian, If you are going to be jumping time zones, and you computer is going to be adjusting to those time zones, you should turn on Time Zone support. 10am in NYC is not 10am if you're in LA. If you need to call the boss at 3pm, you'd be wise to know what time zone 3pm belongs to. Using time zones isn't that difficult as long as you know where you are and where your going. 🙂

Brian, time zones are quite easy to deal with once you understand how they work (unless you're a kiwi from New Zealand). Once set up, all you need to do is switch the time zone to reflect your current location. And when entering an event you just need to be sure it reflects the time zone. The default is the current location. If you are in NY and you have an appt in LA at 3pm LA time, enter the time zone in the info pane and be sure the event reflects the LA time.

I also find very confusing the way time zones are handled. I almost missed a flight because I scheduled it at 2:00 pm while I was in California, but when I arrived to Florida and changed my time zone, it said it was at 5:00 pm.

I guess this may be useful if you are having inter-time-zone meetings, but it's not the obvious behavior for normal users. I just want my events stay where I put them, no matter where I am.

In my opinion you can't have it both ways (telling the mac it moved, but expecting all events to stay still):

You either stick with one timezone and don't ever tell your mac anything but the time where you are (i.e. don't turn on timezone support in iCal, don't change zone in System Prefs when you move.)

OR

You need to do things the way that timezones actually work and assign a timezone to the event, turn-on timezone support, and tell the mac where it is.

I have a question for you: Why do you change the mac's timezone if you don't want it to set event times relative to that zone? Is it just to change the time on the clock?

iCal Time zone support was obviously done by people who have to coordinate meetings in different time zones, but never travel for meetings.

If I talk to someone in CA and set up at a meeting for 3 tomorrow, I want to be able to enter 3pm in iCal. If I then arrange to fly from LA to Tokyo the airline tells me that I leave at 10am and arrive at 2pm the next day -- I want to be able to enter those times, to remind me when I email someone in Tokyo and say I'll be arriving at 2pm and meet them at the airport restaurant at 4. I enter that meeting. The next day I'm in CA and adjust the time zone on my laptop. Why? So my alarm will come up 2 hrs before my flight the next day and remind me to go to LAX. If I did not turn on time zone support, I'll be arriving 2 hrs early. If I did turn on timezone support and correctly put my plane flight in the Pacific time zone and my meeting at Narita in the correct Japanese time zone, then things start getting silly. I cannot look at my calendar and get my flight arrival and Narita airport meeting on the same day view! They will take place on the same afrternoon, 2 hrs apart, but iCal has spread them over 2 days.

iCal is trying to be smart and ends up being stupid. I want the third option: iCal assumes you've entered times like a normal human -- when you traveling to meet someone at 3 you mean 3 at that location. When you enter times for your flight you enter the departure time in the time zone you are leaving from and you enter the arrival time for the location where you land. How could iCal do this? By not adjusting the appointment times and letting the user adjust the time zone of the clock. That way the clock will be correct, it will set off alarms at the correct time, and assuming you don't do something unnatural (like inputting time for events as the time they will occur is some time zone far from where you will be when you want to be reminded of the event) then everything will be ok.

iCal's biggest failing in this regard is that when you sync your palm, it adjusts all times past future and present -- and screws them up. Because the Palm does the right thing and does not switch appointment times when you switch time zone on it. Its one of the few things Palm did very well. It is a shame Apple not only did not emulate it, but screwed it up.

This is the only feature in iCal that makes me yearn for Palm desktop -- but it is a biggie.

G4 Powerbook Mac OS X (10.4.4)

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you (which will not surprise you if you read my earlier post).

Let's look at your example: You could leave time zone support switched off and enter all your appointments at their correct times. When you move to CA, you should then simply adjust the time on your clock by minus 2 hours [not the timezone - you don't use it] and your alarm will work as you require.

However, where iCal does have a deficiency is with regard to flight times: it is - as you show - usual to quote departure and arrival times in the local TZ. If you simply put your flight times into iCal with TZ support OFF, you will get a flight which seems to last for 28hrs - but you would be able to put in your 4pm meeting and see it in correct relation to your arrival time.

However, there is a problem with your example. Flights that cross the international date line travelling eastward will actually arrive on the same day as they leave. A flight from NRT to LAX lasts for approx 9.5 hrs, leaving for example at 17:20 [5:20pm] NRT local and arriving at 09:50 LAX local. This is impossible to put into iCal without TZ support; but even with it on, it does require a compromise: If you are entering this flight in Tokyo time it will need to leave at 17:20, but to arrive at 02:50 the next day. This will leave you with a flight showing the correct duration.

I have not used Palm for a long time, but perhaps you could explain how its calendar would deal with such a flight without it seeming to have a negative duration?

I would contend that iCal's support of timezones would be perfect if it were possible to enter flight departure and arrival times in different time zones.

Incidentally, your comment that "assuming you don't do something unnatural (like inputting time for events as the time they will occur is some time zone far from where you will be when you want to be reminded of the event)" is where I think you are missing the point about time zones.

Mac OS X (10.4.3)