I have a single-user Mac with very few applications, only about 600 songs in iTunes and a very modest iPhoto library. Yet Time Machine, keeping 30 days of backups, nearly fills my 300 GB Passport external drive. On my Mac hard drive I only have a grand total of 45 GB of used space and 98% of that doesn't change, or if it does it's just a change, not more data. I don't even use Apple Mail...I use Gmail.
If very little is changing I don't see why Time Machine should using nearly 300 GB of space for 30 days worth of backups. How can I tame this beast? I'm tired of TechTool telling me I am running out of space on the Passport drive every few days.
In the past I've just manually deleted the old five or six days worth of T.M. backups, but that is another problem in itself. It takes Finder HOURS to delete the hundreds of thousands of files each time I do this. I like Time Machine, but I'm about ready to turn it off and go back to SuperDuper. Thanks for any ideas.
Unibody MacBook - 24" Cinema Display,
Mac OS X (10.5.7)
Two problems: 1. Deleting files manually from the TM backup; 2. Then continuing to allow TM to backup.
What you are doing is guaranteeing that TM will first take hours to reconcile the indices that are now out of sync because you've manually deleted files from the backup. This in turn takes an inordinate amount of time just to perform the deletions. Then the next time TM does a backup it will have to backup the whole thing all over because although you've deleted files in the backup you haven't actually deleted them from your hard drive. So I suspect after 30 days you've probably amassed dozens of backups for most of the files on your hard drive. Each new backup adding incrementally to what's already on the backup drive.
If you don't want files backed up by TM, then put them into the TM Exclude list in TM preferences. If you want to remove files from a TM backup this should only be done using the TM application. If you don't wish to have the incremental backups on an hourly basis because it doesn't fit your needs, then don't use TM for backups. You may indeed be better off with SuperDuper!, Carbon Copy Cloner, or SilverKeeper.
Larry McJunkin wrote:
. . .
Well...I may not have TTPro much longer either, registration or not 🙂
That might be a bit of overkill. Surely it's other features are worth something?
Currently, Disk Utility is repairing a BUNCH of stuff on my Passport drive (TM drive) and has a few minutes left. When that drive has been repaired, I assume I can then go in and remove all the TTPro Protection/My Passport files that are going to be in each backup on that drive (using FAQ #12)? Or, I suppose I could just let TM iron itself out and in 30 days things would be normal?
Yes, either way. But removing all the backups of those files (you delete them all in a single operation), will apparently gain a lot of space, so your remaining backups won't have to be deleted so soon.
That might be a bit of overkill. Surely it's other features are worth something?
I know...I'm sure I'll keep it 🙂
Yes, either way. But removing all the backups of those files (you delete them all in a single operation), will apparently gain a lot of space, so your remaining backups won't have to be deleted so soon.
I hadn't read the entire FAQ item when I posted this. Now that I know I can delete all instances of the My Passport folder under the /TechTool Pro Protection folder I will do that.
I'll post a final report when all this is done in a bit. Thanks.
Thanks so much for all the help. I repaired the Passport (took about an hour), then deleted all instances of /TechTool Protection/My Passport/ on Time Machine using the "correct procedure' in item 12 of the FAQ. The end result was I gained back 174 GB of on the 300 GB Passport drive (Time Machine). I should be able to just let Time Machine do it's own deletions from now on. I do use that drive for one other thing...backing up My Documents and a few other things into a separate folder using SuperDuper, but that has been configured for a year with no interaction problems.
Thanks, also to everyone else who contributed here!
May I ask why you are using SuperDuper to backup your "My Documents"
folder to the same disk that they are already being backup up to via
Time Machine? Just curious.
Thanks so much for all the help. I repaired the Passport (took about an hour), then deleted all instances of /TechTool Protection/My Passport/ on Time Machine using the "correct procedure' in item 12 of the FAQ. The end result was I gained back 174 GB of on the 300 GB Passport drive (Time Machine).
Wow! and Yay! 🙂
I should be able to just let Time Machine do it's own deletions from now on. I do use that drive for one other thing...backing up My Documents and a few other things into a separate folder using SuperDuper, but that has been configured for a year with no interaction problems.
If you ever have to delete all your TM backups (or all the SuperDuper backups), take the opportunity to
Partition the drive, so TM has it's own, exclusive space. That may prevent problems in the future. See items #3 and 6 of the FAQ.
Glad it's all sorted out now, and thanks for the star!
Good question. After all these years in the computing business I've only been burned by not having a necessary backup a couple of times...but both times it cost me a TON of time and some money. I learned my lesson.
The only truly important files I have are all in My Documents, so if something were to go wrong with Time Machine, at least I'd have these files on another place on the external drive. If the external drive goes bad, I've also got them on Dropbox and on Memopal, another online storage service.
Might be paranoia...but I don't think so...I think it's good insurance. The only part I pay for is Memopal ( $40/yr).
I use CarbonCopyCloner to update a clone daily (while I'm snoozing); plus Time Machine; plus some small items to my iDisk daily and others weekly via Backup; plus some CDs/DVDs in my safe deposit box.
I, too, have learned over the years . . . backups are one area where +Paranoia is Prudent!+
If you ever have to delete all your TM backups (or all the SuperDuper backups), take the opportunity to
Partition the drive, so TM has it's own, exclusive space. That may prevent problems in the future. See items #3 and 6 of the FAQ.
I think I'll do this anyway by just killing the SuperDuper folder on the drive, partitioning it and giving them both their own space. SuperDuper will re-create everything it backs up in a short time..after that it's just the things that change.
I guess, then I do not understand why you use TTP to do anything to your TM backup drive. Unless your system is having serious problems I see no need to even use TTP or any other maintenance utility. But I surely wouldn't mess with the TM drive using anything but Disk Utility. Except for Carbon Copy Cloner and SuperDuper 2.5 I don't know of any disk utility known to be wholly compatible with how TM does backups.
I'm with Kappy on this one. And, I'll even take it further....
First, let's discuss how Time Machine does "its thing," and some of the advantages it has. As Pondini has already mentioned, each and every backup is a complete backup of every file from your "source" (every file that has not been explicitly excluded by you). And yet, not much more disk space is required to make these successive backups. That's because Time Machine uses
multi-linked files. While a given backup will contain all of the many thousands of files that exist in your source installation, almost all of those files (all the files that haven't changed in between backups) will point to
data that has already been stored on the backup volume, when prior backups have been made. File "B" and its data has already been copied, so Time Machine merely creates a new "hard link" that points to file "B's" data when making a subsequent backup file file "B." In this way, file "B" can be backed up hundreds of times, all without consuming more disk space than a single iteration of file "B" requires.
At its most powerful, Time Machine can be used to restore your entire installation- from any backup that has been retained on the backup volume- in very short order. It is a powerful recovery tool, but this power can also be used to migrate your entire installation to a new machine or merely a new hard drive. It's a great tool, not just for creating redundancy, but for making that redundancy work for you.
And there's the point that I want to stress: A backup strategy is only as good as its ability to restore you to full functionality in time of need. Treated well, Time Machine will do just that.
So, what do I mean by "treating it well?" First, let it run in isolation, without additional "backup" software getting in the way. Ideally, it should have its own external drive with which to work, but at the very least, give it a dedicated partition on an external. Also, give it exclusive access to that drive when it runs (this should not really be necessary, but every little bit helps).
Those disk errors are cause for concern, even if they have been repaired. Disk repair routines, when they are successful, only fix problems with the
file system; they do not do anything to recover file data that may have been lost. If a file was damaged by the disk error, it will remain damaged after the repair. If said file is part of a backup that you need to restore in the future, you will be in trouble. With Time Machine, this problem is multiplied by the number of backups it has made and kept, since lost data for a single file will impact every backup that contains that same file.
I strongly recommend that you format the volume you will use for Time Machine, then allow it to start a new sequence of backups. Do so only after you have ascertained that by removing your backup "history" you will lose no unique files that exist only in older backups.
Once you have done this, and you have Time Machine working on backups that you can trust, then you can consider other alternatives. Redundancy is good, but only if it doesn't get in the way of functionality. I consider my Time Machine backup(s) as protection for my installation of OS X, and my installation of OS X as protection for my backup(s). They are both equally important, and I can recover or migrate fully from either one as well as the other. Any other backup I make- regardless of the extent or means- is gravy.
Kappy wrote:
I guess, then I do not understand why you use TTP to do anything to your TM backup drive. Unless your system is having serious problems I see no need to even use TTP or any other maintenance utility. But I surely wouldn't mess with the TM drive using anything but Disk Utility. Except for Carbon Copy Cloner and SuperDuper 2.5 I don't know of any disk utility known to be wholly compatible with how TM does backups.
I'm not using TTP to do anything to any of my drives...I use Disk Utility for all things for which it was intended. That said, having been in the software business for over 20 years I assure you that everything our beloved bundled utilities do...they don't do it "all". I see a great value in many of the tests and reports that TTP provides, and that's all I use it for (mostly things I can't get from inherent utilities).
While I will format the external drive and partition it for use primarily for TM I certainly don't see a problem with a small partition on it to have SuperDuper do "as changed" backups of just my critical files in My Documents. I've used TM three times now to completely restore a new Mac and it didn't even have a problem doing so from it's own folder on the drive...let alone a partition or having its own drive exclusively (of course, that was before I'd ever touched the TM files manually). Of course, now that I've mucked with some manual deletions, I know I should reformat it so TM can start over again...then I'll leave it alone 🙂
You guys have been great in educating me on TM, one thing I've just not taken the time to learn since it came out. Thanks again.
Scott Radloff wrote:
First, let's discuss how Time Machine does "its thing," and some of the advantages it has.
Scott,
Thanks for taking the time to provide further amplification on this topic. For some of your points please see my last reply to Kappy.
After reading your response I will definitely reformat the 300 GB external drive I use for TM, but I still don't see a logical reason why I can't have a small (30 GB) partition on it for an additional SuperDuper backup of my critical files in My Documents? However, before I do this I'll wait for your reply in case there is a valid reason I should do this. Since I do backup my critical files in a couple of other places, including an online backup solution, a lengthy TM series of backups is not that important to me.
As you, I want TM in case I have to completely restore my system, and I've used it for that several times. It's awesome in that regard, though I've used it also many times to simply recover an older version of a file I wanted as it's generally faster than grabbing it from the online backup or even the SuperDuper backup.
Thanks again for your well-crafted and very informative narrative on how TM actually works. As I mention earlier in this thread...I had not taken the time to completely understand how TM actually works, especially regarding multi-linked files. If I had...I would never have manually deleted anything from TM.
Still, the crux of the excessive files loading up the TM drive was the TTP Protection files that TTP was storing about the TM drive itself, and they were not needed. This was clearly pointed out in the article Pondini referred me to, so others had experienced this as well.
At this point, I intend to format the TM drive, and based on your reply, either use it only for TM or preferably partition it with a 30 GB area for the SuperDuper backup of the critical files in My Documents. Thanks again!
Josef...I wanted to make sure you were recognized as the first person that got me thinking about TechTool Pro as the problem here. Sorry if I didn't do this specifically before.
At this point, I intend to format the TM drive, and based on your reply, either use it only for TM or preferably partition it with a 30 GB area for the SuperDuper backup of the critical files in My Documents.
There's no reason why you cannot do as you suggest. In fact, I usually do recommend that users create a second partition for their own use, when a backup drive is considerably larger than need be for Time Machine's purposes. Part of that recommendation, however, is that the
first partition be used for Time Machine (the one at the top of the graph in the "Partition" pane). By doing this, one always has the option of removing the second partition in order to expand the Time Machine partition into the free space (Partitions can only be expanded toward the end of the drive).
One caveat, though!! Do not allow SuperDuper to run concurrently with Time Machine. If SD is running automatically, and it happened to be making a backup at the same time as Time Machine, it would
probably not cause any problem. But, would you want to risk it? I wouldn't.
I did understand from the earlier posts that the real problem had been identified, and that you had taken steps to prevent it from recurring. I just wanted to make sure that you also took the additional steps to insure that Time Machine continued to work as well for you as it has in the past 😉
One caveat, though!! Do not allow SuperDuper to run concurrently with Time Machine. If SD is running automatically, and it happened to be making a backup at the same time as Time Machine, it would
probably not cause any problem. But, would you want to risk it? I wouldn't.
Scott,
Odd you should mention this. When Time Machine first came out I asked SuperDuper tech support about this and they assured me there would never be a problem with SuperDuper accessing the drive at the same time as Time Machine.
That said, I'd rather it didn't happen either, though perhaps an unnecessary step. How do I assure the two apps aren't accessing the drive at the same time? I've already got them both up and running on two separate partitions, but I've turned both off until I get this answered. Thanks.
