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Helpful answers
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Feb 8, 2012 2:02 PM in response to Agentfruitby Sukiari,They did not offer to do this at the Pioneer Square Apple Store in Portland. When I asked for help the guy actually rolled his eyes at me.
The last time I went in there, though, the guys behind the desk were quite friendly which was a nice change.
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Feb 9, 2012 6:06 AM in response to Sukiariby Leon Buijs,May I ask what temperatures we're talking about? For example, the room temperature here is around 20º Celcius most of the year, maybe up to 25 in summer. (Also, I hardy ever really use the power of this machine, I don't do video editing or something like that and I have had very little problems lately).
Maybe some others can post their average / top room temperatures / how hard the machine is put to work?
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Feb 9, 2012 6:53 AM in response to Leon Buijsby Oreocracker,Leon,
The temp in my studio is approx 70-72º F in winter and in the 80's during the summer.
My ambient internal temp is 74º right now and the others range between 80's and 90's.
The fans are running 499-599 RPM and the Hard Drive (recent install) is 800RPM.
Does anyone know if these ranges are normal? I'm using the desktop widget, iStat Pro for the readings.
I use it all day for illustrating or photo retouching. Have it on for weekends for email. I shut it down at night.
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Feb 9, 2012 7:08 AM in response to Oreocrackerby The hatter,Run SmcFanControl 2.3+ and set up some fan profiles - default-low-medium-high and play around with those (600-900-1200-1500 as example) anyone with 2008 or earlier, as in any Mac Pro with FBDIMMs really ought to and keep eye on FBDIMMs to keep those below 75*C is a good indicator.
When you are working and shutdown or it goes to sleep, and the fans stop, the heat will build up inside actually, one reason for the fans to go on high speed after sleep - to expell hot air.
No need to actually do full shutdown unless you want, though.
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Feb 9, 2012 4:21 PM in response to 3PIXELSby Snow Hound,Bruce, My pre 2008 MacPro just started this spontaneous reboot issue a few days ago. After I went through all the "fixes" talked about- except replacing the power supply or motherboard the only thing that seems to work for me is taking out riser number two and not putting it back in....good thing is I can work on the machine, bad is that I only have about 1/4 of the MacPro it once was (original had all 8 slots filled with 2 gig mods) now I just have 2 2 gig mods in the one card.
Wondering if it was the card I switched em around and tried various combos of the 8 different mods and all worked fine, so have concluded that its not the ram or either card, its just something about having the second slot filled that sets it off.
How may ram modules do you have in the one card, 2 or 4?
I'm going to see if it makes any discernible difference if I have four ram modules in the one card but I'm thinking it may not as they are suppose to work in tandom to be efficient.
Anyone else have any good idea's?
I can't take mine into "the local Apple Store" cuz the nearest one is about 1000 miles by air from here. And at what it costs to ship these days....forget that.
Everything has been working with just the one card in that I got cocky and put the other back in, thinking that maybe it fixed itself....HaHa...After powering it up it just went into a nonstop recycled restart till I started too get paranoid and shut it down.
I don't see how the power supply could be affecting it in this way...unless the issue is that when there are two riser cards it can't provide or has trouble allocating enough power to run both sets of processors and just gives up and shuts down?
I was ready to order a new riser card, until I switched em out and found both worked in slot A, as long as nothing was in slot B.
So am not real anxious to order a new power supply and find out that doesn't allow me to use both riser cards, for an older machine like this.
I'm also considering ordering a 2010-11 model but am afraid Lion may present compatibility issues with the eSATA PCI cards and external raid systems I need to access.
I guess if it did then I could install leopard instead.
Also considered getting an iMac but I really prefer all the options available with a MacPro, I need all the different ports and connections to access all my other externals...I hope Apple doesn't throw in the towel and quite making Pro machines, going for the consumer market and abandoning the rest of us...gets back on the stick and puts out a new MacPro with upgraded features. Soon.
Any suggestions from anyone will be appreciated, while we wait to catch up with the present
Thank you.
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Feb 9, 2012 5:09 PM in response to Snow Houndby plainhat,Hi Snowhound!
Whatever you do, you should at the very least change your energy saver features so that it no longer auto restarts. This at least will keep you safe from that awful serial reboot stuff that can do oh so much more harm than you already have.
I've been very lucky so far that the power reset (holding the button in when unplugged) a good cleaning, an upgrade to Lion and keeping it from ever falling asleep has kept me up and running for nearly a month. I fully expect I'll come home one day to find it shut down on its own, but at least I don't need to worry that it is mangling itself trying to restart itself while it is unattended!
Good luck. I hope that this wasn't your first Mac experience (as it is mine) :=}
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Feb 9, 2012 5:52 PM in response to Snow Houndby Brian Macdougall,Let me second plainhat's suggestion. It's been nearly six months since I stopped my MP from sleeping on its own, and I haven't experienced a single hiccup and it didn't cost me a nickel. However, I am going to make another suggestion as well. I'm wondering if having RAM on both cards is making that part of the interior too hot. As an experiment (what do you have to lose?), try moving the video card into the other 16x slot (I think it's slot 2) away from the RAM. I did that and it dropped the ambient tempature in the box 20+ degress F. Those risers can get wicked hot, as I'm sure you've already noticed. You could also try to see what happens when you let the box run with the side panel off. That can drop the temperature another 10+. The results from iStat Menu or Hardware Monitor are very revealing. Good luck.
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Feb 9, 2012 8:01 PM in response to plainhatby Snow Hound,Hello plainhat, thanks for the reply and all. I haven't tried Lion yet, but I did try the power reset a few times
and as long as I had both risers in the machine it didn't do any good....Thing is I've had 4 ram modules on both cards in that machine for over a year without any issues from heat, and I don't think I mentioned it but I am in Alaska, so the ambient temp in my office is about 60 degree F. The fans are running and I also tried running it with the side off- just because I got tired of taking it on and off each time I switched something around...didn't make any difference. But I did notice a red LED was lit when the second riser was installed and that it wasn't when I took that second riser out, and this was true when I switched the cards around too. After I get my morning dose of coffee in the morning I'm going to take the power supply completely out of the box, clean it, put it back in- again and check the energy preferences, I know I set it to never go to sleep, but I'll check the restart and see what happens. Cause that serial restart stuff is scary! No this isn't my first Mac experience, I've had macs for over 15 years now but never had an issue like this one. Except I do have an old G5 that I keep in the back room to print with that is noisy as heck- the fans ramp up to full speed on startup and stay that way unless you put it to sleep. But I think that there's some software I can get to fix that.
Also have two iMacs, another and a macbook pro. But those have all been good to me. Heck I even have one that I'm saving as it will be an "antique" in another few years....its one of those little square ones with a monitor that is about 8x8". The others I have given away to schools and others.
Thanks for taking the time to reply and I hope your luck holds!
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Feb 9, 2012 8:24 PM in response to Brian Macdougallby Snow Hound,Hello Brian, I'm going to check it in the morning but I think I might not be able to move the video card over because that slot may be already taken up with another card, I have two eSATA PCI cards in there already that connect some large RAID towers. I've never had any heat issues...that I'm aware of...never thought it would be a problem in Alaska. I keep the ambient temp in my office at about 60 degrees F because all the UPS/APC units warm it up another 8-10 degrees. Its cool enough that I can run single 7200 rpm drives out in the open without any fans in a Voyager for enough time to do backup for offsite storage. Did nearly get a blister one time though after running a 1 TB mirrored backup and reaching to pull one of the drives before it cooled- learned that lesson the hard way! I'll check the iStat and hardware monitor next time I have it up. I did put two more ram modules in the "A" riser and the ram shows up and no problems- but I'm not getting the double processing power which is a drag.
So that makes me think its not a heat issue because it should be warmer with 4 instead of 2 in there...shouldn't it? And I do have the problem when I just use 2 modules on each card, as well.
Hope all continues to go well for you though and I may try a new power supply, found one for about $150, which I can send back if it doesn't work for a full refund.
The bummer is that replacing this machine that has two 3 GHz processors and 16 GB's off RAM is going to cost over 5K for something just a little bit faster.
Cheers, john
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Feb 9, 2012 8:38 PM in response to Snow Houndby plainhat,Honestly, I don't think that Lion or the power stuff or any of that has solved anything. I really believe it will start doing it again as others have.
The only two things I think really have made any difference were the cleaning and reseating (and I had a friend help me remove and clean even the optical drive and the power supply -- we cleaned everything we could possibly reach) and killing the auto restart so it doesn't struggle if it should crash.
I'm in NJ, but the thing never acted up during all the months of 100 degree weather we had this summer (no air conditioning here). It only started in the fall with the cooler weather. I'm not convinced it is heat alone, but that it may add to something that is failing. I'm not sure what riser is where, but Brian may be onto something. If that slot that seems to be giving you heartache is the one slot closest to some other heat producing component, it may just be that the failing riser is being more affected by it in that slot than in another. Something to think about!
When mine starts bugging out again, I'll start replacing risers. Otherwise, at least it isn't mangling itself anymore!
Fortunately, my slightly newer MP at work has been running like a top or I'd really be soured on the MP. As it is, I sank so much money into this puppy that I can't possibly think of replacing it for a long long while...
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Feb 10, 2012 8:53 AM in response to plainhatby Snow Hound,Good morning plainhat!,
Well, I'm half way through my second cup of coffee and contemplating the MacPro that is giving me fits.
First thing I'm going to do is go with your recommendation to clean the heck out of it.
I've cleaned it in general- the basic interior and the fans, and the ram riser cards and modules so I'm going to open the optical drive, the power supply and the PCI expansion card slots, clean and reseat everything, then start it up with just the one ram module in it and turn off the auto restart as you've kindly suggested (or maybe I'll do that before I get inside).
Then put the second ram card in, cross my fingers, power it up and see whats what!
I've been using this machine for 4 years so its "paid for itself" but it would be nice if I could get another year or so out of it, rather than having to relegate it to some more mundane tasks than being my main image processing and file management machine.
I am hoping for a new updated MacPro and some more Thunderbird products before having to make that next large investment_something that is backward compatible with the expensive RAID towers I've built that store all our images but more forward compatible as well. Having to use a display port to take advantage of thunderbird doesn't give me as much confidence as if it were actually connected directly to the desktop and maybe offered the advantage of two ports rather than just one...(daisy chaining doesn't set that well with me which seems to be the only current option).
If and when yours starts "bugging out" again (hopefully it won't!) then I'd suggest switching the riser cards around before you buy new ones because when I did that it didn't make any difference which I used, only that one of them was mounted in the machine, so the cards themselves can't be the issue (you can get one for about $50-60 though). Funny thing was, I even mounted a card- without any ram modules installed on it and it still bugged out. So that is what made me think it could be something with the connection between the ram riser card and the motherboard or some other thing involving power issues that only come into play when both processors are asked to work at the same time.
We shall see...or not.
Maybe I'll limp along for a while on the single processor- if the cleaning doesn't pan out, hoping for a new product announcement or give in and buy another, with a new display too.
Thanks for all your suggestions and maybe I'll get lucky today after cleaning house!
Be well and I'll keep my fingers crossed, hoping yours keeps on ticking along,
john
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Feb 10, 2012 9:00 AM in response to Snow Houndby The hatter,Any pre-2009 MacPro is likely not going to be happy with just one DIMM - you can try.
Some even put DIMMs in unsupported pair positions:
slot #1 & 3 on a riser
or
slot #1 on both risers (supported in 2008 with only one pair)
with
a pair in slot #3 on both risers for 2nd set (unsupported! but found to work usually) leaving slot #2 empty.
DDR3 is so much more affordable today compared to FBDIMMs (and run colder too)
FBDIMMs that are kept to the 65*C range probably live a longer healthier life <g>
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Feb 10, 2012 9:10 AM in response to Snow Houndby dwight w.,I sincerely hope that you--and others--are able to fix this problem.
However, I would like to say again that I have tried EVERY ONE of these solutions (with the exception of the SMC fan controller app) and nothing worked until I installed a new power supply. You could look at my earlier messages to see the complete list of things I tried--short list: remove all RAM except minimum; move RAM around; remove all hard drives, start off external drive; start up off Snow Leopard; start up off clean install of Lion; totally clean RAM, power supply, interior, video card, etc. etc.
Rather than spend hours of tinkering only to have the disheartening experience of getting up and finding your Mac in an endless cycle of restarts--or not sleeping correctly--or simply not starting, I suggest once again that you try a new power supply. As I said before, I have no idea how a power supply can cause all these symptoms, but it does. You can get one for $150 or so, and it is pretty easy to install. Mine was like a totally new computer, and it has been three months now and no problems.
I can't stress enough how long I tried to fix this, only to be faced with new symptoms and inconsistent behavior. It was like the computer was playing cruel tricks on me. Try a new power supply.
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Feb 10, 2012 9:50 AM in response to dwight w.by BobHassinger,I think there is signaling between the power supply and the system that reflects something along the line of low voltage, and it can trigger a shutdown like we see. Obviously the power supply could in fact be dropping its output voltage down far enough to trigger it, but there could also be a flaw in the sensing and signaling.
Another point about the second riser and the like - air flow patterns through the case can be changed by the presence or absence of particular cards, or even having the side off the case. In principle the optimum situation for air flow and cooling should be with the covers on and the normal configuration of cards. But maybe in a situation where some part is going marginal the removal of a card for example could facilitate air flow to a particular place sufficiently to make a difference, at least for a while as the situation deteriorates.
One other thought about the riser card - if there are any electronic components on the riser then they are likely to consume some power and make some heat even when there are no memory modules mounted on it.