Devanagari MT Font Problem

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Level 1

2 points

Devanagari MT Font Problem

Hi, after finding I couldn't type the conjunct ṅg (in the word piṅgala) with the Devanagari MT font in Pages '09, I read an article by Tom Gewecke staing that the Windows Sanskrit 2003 font worked with all the conjuncts in OpenOffice, so I tried to install it to see if it would work for Pages (in my user/library/fonts folder). Well when I opened Pages I was shocked to find that now the extant Devanagari MT type was screwed up, notably the vowel U which is written under the characters (it displaces them one space to the left on the previous character). I have deleted Sanskrit 2003 from my computer and restarted it as well, but the problem is now persisting somehow. In addition now, my Safari application freezes up every time I hit the bookmarks button. I am wondering if there is a way to fix this problem? I tried TextEdit by the way, and Devanagari MT still works in it. I am thinking I will have to try to back up my writings on a disk then try to set my system to the last time I backed it up with time machine. Any help would be appreciated.

Power Mac G4, Mac OS X (10.5.7)

Posted on Aug 5, 2009 3:26 PM

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Answer 1

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

122,808 points

Aug 5, 2009 4:15 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

Windows Sanskrit 2003 font worked with all the conjuncts in OpenOffice, so I tried to install it to see if it would work for Pages.

For future reference, Windows Devanagari fonts cannot work in any OS X app other than OpenOffice version 2 which uses X11.

I've never heard of the presence of any Windows Devanagari font causing a problem with Pages, as long as it was not selected for your text. You might try creating another user account to see if the problem exists there as well, or reinstall Pages.

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Answer 2

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

122,808 points

Aug 5, 2009 4:10 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

Hi, after finding I couldn't type the conjunct ṅg (in the word piṅgala) with the Devanagari MT font

Open the Font Panel, select Devanagari MT, and click on the gear wheel at the bottom left. Select Typography, and check the box for Additional Conjuncts. Hopefully you will then get the form you are seeking.

User uploaded file

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Answer 3

Aug 5, 2009 6:49 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

Both Mac and PC versions of Indesign do not do all scripts by default. There is a separate ME version:

http://www.fontworld.com/me/indesignme.html

Which has wide language support, check with the publishers if this covers Devenagari and other Indic scripts.

Quark as I understand it has all bases covered now.

Neither Indesign nor Quark use Apple's problematic ATSUI text engine.

If you need to use the Windows MsWord on your Mac you do not necessarily need to use Boot Camp, Parallels, VMWare Fusion, or VirtualBox.

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/22636/crossover-mac

lets you run MsWord on the Mac without installing Windows, but this may defeat the foreign language support, so you will need to test it.

You might have a look at this site to see if there is another solution for you:

https://collab.itc.virginia.edu/access/wiki/site/c06fa8cf-c49c-4ebc-007f-482de53 82105/devenagari%20unicode%20input%20for%20mac%20os%20x.html

Peter

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Answer 4

Wizardiaoan Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 5, 2009 4:37 PM in response to Tom Gewecke

I originally checked that and found I couldn't type the conjunct, nor would it dsiplay them on wikipedia's devanagari page, which is what made me try the Sanskrit 2003 font. Now I read that both Pages and Mac in general is unsuitable software for submission to a professional publisher, which is what I am striving towards. I read through the long Marystudio thread about the quartz rendering of PDFs. In that 5-page thread it was never really answered what the solution is. I am writing various books dealing with multiple scripts, and want them eventually to be able to be printed professionally. What is the suitable software for me? I am unfamiliar with InDesign as a word processor, would I be able to write with it? I have been a Mac user for probably 10 years (and pefer the OS in general). I recently left Mac Word so I could type unicode fonts. Do I have to abandon Mac for Windows if I want a professional output word processor—what the heck is the proper software for me to use? That's all I want to know and I'll start working towards it. Is it only InDesign for Mac, and is even it good enough? I have Acrobat Distiller, but again I hear the quartz rendering of Mac's PDFs is sub-par.

Thanks,
Walt

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Answer 5

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

122,808 points

Aug 5, 2009 5:26 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

I originally checked that and found I couldn't type the conjunct,

Really? The graphic I posted was from TextEdit on my machine (am away from my Pages installation today).

nor would it dsiplay them on wikipedia's devanagari page,

I don't think typography options will work with web pages, you need to copy/paste to a word processor where you have more font control.

I am unfamiliar with InDesign as a word processor, would I be able to write with it?

You would need to be careful to make sure the version of InDesign you use can handle the scripts you need. Some common ones cannot do Devanagari or Arabic.

http://m10lmac.blogspot.com/2009/02/adobe-app-language-improvements.html

I recently left Mac Word so I could type unicode fonts.

Mac Word 2008 is fully Unicode, it just can't yet do RTL and Indic scripts.

Someone else will have to answer the questions about book publishing. I'm sure Windows offers more font options for things like Devanagari.

http://m10lmac.blogspot.com/2009/07/new-language-features-in-windows-7.html

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Answer 6

Wizardiaoan Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 5, 2009 6:31 PM in response to Tom Gewecke

You would need to be careful to make sure the version of InDesign you use can handle the scripts you need. Some common ones cannot do Devanagari or Arabic.

That's only the Mac version of InDesign correct? The Windows version has no problem?

Mac Word 2008 is fully Unicode, it just can't yet do RTL and Indic scripts.

Yeah which is why I didn't upgrade and went to Pages. This isn't going to be fixed soon is it? It looks like my best bet is to go with Windows Word. Do you think getting a virtual PC for a Mac to run Windows Word is a solution?

Thanks for your replies,
Walt

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Answer 7

Wizardiaoan Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 5, 2009 6:34 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

There is also the bizarre problem of my Safari freezing up now when I hit the bookmarks tab, which is why I think my system is screwed up a bit now, instead of it just being Pages. I've not tried to reinstall it yet.

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Answer 8

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

122,808 points

Aug 5, 2009 6:55 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

That's only the Mac version of InDesign correct? The Windows version has no problem?

Wrong. If you go that route you need to check carefully what is possible. You can search/ask in the Adobe forums, for example.

This isn't going to be fixed soon is it?

I really doubt it.

It looks like my best bet is to go with Windows Word. Do you think getting a virtual PC for a Mac to run Windows Word is a solution?

My impression is that Virtual PC is really old and slow. I would recommend you upgrade to an Intel Mac, which can sometimes run Windows faster than a PC does.

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Answer 9

Wizardiaoan Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 5, 2009 7:07 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

Peter, thanks for the information about InDesign ME and Quark having good multi-lingual capabilities.

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/22636/crossover-mac

lets you run MsWord on the Mac without installing Windows, but this may defeat the foreign language support, so you will need to test it.

Thanks for the link, my feeling is that this wouldn't work for me, as I would need windows full unicode font capability.

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Answer 10

Wizardiaoan Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 5, 2009 7:16 PM in response to Tom Gewecke

It looks like my best bet is to go with Windows Word. Do you think getting a virtual PC for a Mac to run Windows Word is a solution?

My impression is that Virtual PC is really old and slow. I would recommend you upgrade to an Intel Mac, which can sometimes run Windows faster than a PC does.

Really? Are you confident that I could get Windows Word working on my Mac (or an Intel Mac) well with one of these programs? Any recommendations? I was also considering buying a PC laptop or something to run Word Windows.

Thanks,
Walt

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Answer 11

Aug 5, 2009 7:26 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

Actually as Tom has neatly pointed out, I hadn't noticed, you are on an older PPC Mac and Crossover is not for you.

Neither in all likelihood are the latest versions of Indesign and Quark.

Tom might correct me, but I don't think Microsoft has handled the Unicode support exclusively in their system. I was under the impression a good chunk of it was being exclusively handled in MsWord itself.

The rest is all fonts and you can DL either otf Unicode fonts with huge character sets or just for the particular language you are interested in.

The thought has occurred to me that your problem may be font related. Have you tried alternative fonts?

Peter

PS I read the details in that Devenagari site I pointed you to. Have you tried installing the keyboard and using TextEdit as they suggested?

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Answer 12

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

122,808 points

Aug 5, 2009 7:34 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

Really? Are you confident that I could get Windows Word working on my Mac (or an Intel Mac) well with one of these programs? Any recommendations? I was also considering buying a PC laptop or something to run Word Windows.

Sorry, I don't have any personal experience with running Win Word on either Mac or PC, so I won't make any recommendation. I did use Virtual PC at one point long ago and was not impressed. I think the low price of PC laptops makes this an attractive option for your purposes.

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Answer 13

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

122,808 points

Aug 5, 2009 7:41 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

The thought has occurred to me that your problem may be font related. Have you tried alternative fonts?

The problem is that there aren't any fonts for Devanagari that work right on a Mac other than the one provided by Apple (unless you use OpenOffice/X11 or perhaps something like IndicPlus.)

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Answer 14

Walt K

Level 4

2,946 points

Aug 5, 2009 7:42 PM in response to Wizardiaoan

Just to throw another thought into the mix here, if you think you will want to upgrade to Snow Leopard, I've read that it won't run on a PPC. It will require an Intel Mac. You may, or may not, need to factor that in with some of the other seuggestions.

Walt

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Answer 15

Aug 5, 2009 8:03 PM in response to Walt K

Good point, and nothing helps disguise the font problems like the glare and reflections off a brand new iMac screen. 🙂

Peter

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