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jskains Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
So I got concerned about my idle Hard Drive hanging out at 57c. About the power supply idling at 80c. I've had over 5 iMac replacements trying to chase this issue. All of which return to these temps. I was resigned to accepting these temperatures as normal, but now I got feedback from Apple's engineering team that these temperatures are too high and that it should be replaced....

Anyone else going through this?

MacBook Pro 15" (2009) 2.8ghz 500GB 5400rpm, Mac OS X (10.5.7)
  • a brody Level 9 Level 9 (64,125 points)
    The question is, are you using a tool Apple engineering recommended?

    If not, I wouldn't treat the tool's measurements as gospel. Many third party heat measurement tools are out there, but assume a unique hardware configuration. Unless you are using the exact tool and version Apple engineers are using, I wouldn't assume that tool is giving you an accurate reading.

    If you have unexpected shutdowns, it may indicate a problem with the power in your home. Have an electrician look for possible surges, poor grounding, or something else. Use an uninterruptable power supply by APC, to ensure the proper power gets to your computer.
  • jskains Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Uh right.

    So back in reality, a sensor is a sensor. It produces a number. There is no magic to it. It's a number. There is no special coding, or special needs to get the number other than to know where to read the number. iStat Pro, etc. etc. all see the number And you either can read the number or you can't. This isn't rocket science. I am so tired of hearing these excuses.

    The hard drive sensor reads 57c... What, does 57c mean something different in Appleland?

    Sigh

    JMS
  • Al Van Malsen Level 6 Level 6 (18,740 points)
    Anyone else going through this?

    I currently have 5 iMacs and have owned three others in the past and have never had an issue that was heat related, even on the old G-5 models which ran hotter than the Intel models due.

    If the Apple engineers are telling you it is too hot maybe you should continue discussing with them the reasons for it. Heat does not seem to be a widespread issue. Some folks have reported heat problems but there really are not all that many posts out here discussing it.

    If you have had 5 replacements due to heat it may be possible that it is a local environment issue, electrical issue or perhaps a peripheral issue. I would doubt that it is a software issue although I guess it is possible. Since you seem to have the attention of the engineering department you should discuss all of those possibilities with them and try to rule each one out in some manner.

    Hope you get it sorted out.
  • a brody Level 9 Level 9 (64,125 points)
    And where does Apple document these sensors in code for the general public to use on every Mac?

    The sensor may not be right on top of the hard drive. It may be in a place related to the fan to cool it down. It may be telling the fan to turn on to cool down air going to the drive before it even reaches the drive.

    The point is, we don't know. Just because a sensor says the temperature is hot, does not mean the machine is about to fall apart.

    Instead, you should take it in to an engineer who has the proper tools to diagnose the temperature, and determine if a replacement is warranted.

    Only an Apple Authorized service center would have those tools.

    As a consumer you are provided with a couple tools to tell you if something is amiss:

    1. The hardware test that comes with your Mac.
    2. Techtool Deluxe which comes with Applecare.
    3. Disk Utility which comes on your Mac's installer discs, and newer retail Mac OS X installers.
    4. System Profiler in Apple menu -> About This Mac -> More Info.
    5. Energy Saver in Apple menu -> System Preferences.

    Unless the tool tells you it has been tested with that particular model and vintage Mac and has been able to diagnose immediate system failure from the tool's own documentation, reading the temperature of your machine you might as well get a false assumption that your machine is about to blow up. It won't most of the time. Also there is cooling gel on the computer's innards that can prevent places from overheating as well. So don't assume your software is able to detect all hardware faults, unless it is documented to say that it can, and what those faults are when it detects them.
  • jskains Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I'd bite environmental if the Ambient readings weren't normal. Ambient is around 27c. The UPS supplies a steady 119.3v and is properly grounded.

    JMS
  • a brody Level 9 Level 9 (64,125 points)
    119.3v? It needs 120v. Sounds like the UPS needs a new battery or isn't giving the proper potential to the machine. Any variation from the norm can give computers fits.
  • musashi88 Level 2 Level 2 (455 points)
    Hi
    Your ambient is about 5ºC above mine which would put all my temps in the 30-40º range and and my hottest Power supply position 1 at 50-60º range...until I play a game or do work on multiple programs, ie ms word, indesign, photoshop etc. Then all temps go up by 10-20º. Am I worried, no longer. The fans ramp up naturally and I can cook an egg on the top left hand of my mac. My question is, does the heat affect your mac's performance at all?
  • a brody Level 9 Level 9 (64,125 points)
    Performance alone can be impacted by the fans or processor heat, as more energy is drawn towards the fans, and keeping the machine from overheating. If you read the Energy Saver preferences, it offers the options of either slower performance, or automatic settings to change how the processor and fans react:

    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.5/en/8596.html

    But just because your performance is impacted, doesn't mean your machine actually is itself overheating. The true test of overheating is if you suddenly see your system shutting down on its own, without your prompting either by System Preference setting to do so, or manually from the Apple menu. The system does have safeguards if it is functioning to shut down the machine automatically if it overheats.

    That's why the hardware test Apple offers is important, it can tell you if most of those safeguards are working. Otherwise, an authorized service center might have to tell you if the safeguards are in place. I've seen many cases where a fan is malfunctioning from the Apple hardware test reported here, and once even on my Powerbook. I took it in to Apple and they tried fixing it, and eventually replaced my machine.

    The fact you are going through multiple replaces either tells me you have convinced the engineers each of those machines has had problems worth replacing before their even testing it, or there was a problem on some of those machines, but not others. Regardless, I would not use the heat from a third party utility report as the sole basis for replacing your machine.
  • jskains Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    First off, I didn't convince Apple of anything. I ask a question, they respond. I show them the iStat Pro entries and they say "oh, that should be replaced". I am actually tired of them making the decision to replace, replace, replace. I am tried of the wet-behind-the-ears punk kids who run those "Genius" bars. Every time I talk to them, it is a different answer, a different resolution, but the same "I'm so awesome cause I work here and you should be grateful I am giving you my time" attitude.

    AppleCare phone lines are useless. I ask them if these temps are normal, they say "go to the app store". And this dumb idea of "if it is overheating, it will shut down" is as dumb as ignoring a weird noise from your engine because "the check engine light didn't come on".

    Proactive behavior prevents long term failures. If a hard drive is overheating, it can introduce errors. If the errors are minor and you don't catch them, they can also be introduced into your backups. If a hard drive is forced to constantly operate in a super-hot environment, it will long-term fail.

    It's like a bad bearing on a fan. If it is just starting to fail, but the fan still spins at the right speed, the tests won't pick it up until the fan actually fails. But a fan can start to sound off. Now, do you ignore the fan or replace it? A good IT pro would replace it so you can avoid the failure altogether.

    All I know is I bought a client of mine over 20 dell machines. Only one had an issue and it was quickly replaced. My impression is that Apple is a bit too into pushing out new hardware and not enough into quality control.
  • rkaufmann87 Level 8 Level 8 (46,050 points)
    Based on what you stated

    +"All I know is I bought a client of mine over 20 dell machines. Only one had an issue and it was quickly replaced. My impression is that Apple is a bit too into pushing out new hardware and not enough into quality control. "+

    Assuming that is representative of all Dell machines (and I hope it isn't) that is a 5% failure rate. With today's manufacturing technology that is an extremely high number. Apple's failure rate is well less than 1%....I think I will stick with Apple.
  • jskains Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Could you show some evidence of that 1% fail rate as I challenge the validity.
  • jskains Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    So here are some reliability surveys. Far from your fantasy 1%

    http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/
    http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/ipodfailures.html


    And here is a comment about reliability in general:
    http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06/27/gartnerhardware_failurerates/

    < Edited by Host >

    Thanks,
    JMS
  • rkaufmann87 Level 8 Level 8 (46,050 points)
    This data is specifically targeted at the G5 iMac, iPods and a non sequitur PC article. Apple did acknowledge the G5 had issues and offered assistance to affected owners. The G5 has not be sold since about March of 2006, in computer terms this is VERY old data.

    However that being said you are correct I cannot produce up-to-date statistics stating the iMac failure rate is below 1% nor can you produce statistics pertinent statistics stating they are above 1%. For that I'll concede an error in my statement and offer my apology for making an unsupported claim.
  • jskains Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Please learn the term "Non Sequitur".

    Also learn that Apples are PCs as well. PC is "Personal Computer". They are also now technically IBM compatible as they are Intel based.

    The article demonstrates that 20% is about average for the market, so unless Apple is a magical fanatsy company, I doubt they sit in some 1% market - 19% lower than average.

    JMS
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