Capturing BetaSP footage

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Level 1

5 points

Capturing BetaSP footage

I have this old project that was shot on 16mm film, transferred to Betacam SP, and edited on an old Avid system 12 years ago. I'm dusting off the project to re-edit and distribute.

Here's my question: What is the best way to import Beta SP into FCP 5.1. Yes, my system is old, but I want to get this last project done before I can afford to upgrade.

Is using the Sony J30 Deck via Firewire a reasonable method? Or do I need a capture card. What do I need for the best quality import of my source tapes?

Many thanks!
Christine

Dual 2.5 G5, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Aug 7, 2009 11:31 AM

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Answer 1

Nick Holmes

Level 7

30,018 points

Aug 7, 2009 12:23 PM in response to Deebs

You need a capture card so that you can work in an uncompressed codec and retain quality.
If you are connecting the J30 via FireWire it will output a DV signal to your computer.

While DV is 1:5 compression, it can still look decent. Depending on your delivery format, it might be acceptable -do a test and see what you think, before investing in a capture card.

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Answer 2

Aug 7, 2009 3:03 PM in response to Nick Holmes

I'll be the maverick here and say absolutely that SP is NO BETTER THAN DV50. So, you won't hurt anything capturing in DV50 -- uncompressed is overkill.

If you don't believe me, ask Graeme Nattress. There's a name I trust.

CaptM

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Answer 3

Aug 7, 2009 4:30 PM in response to Captain Mench

Maverick #2: It all depends on what your release media will be. there is no rationale to over-resolve your release media unless you're doing high-end special effects and keying in which case, es, you must find a way to preserve the chroma resolution from capture all the way through printing to whatever your output is oging to be..

bogiesan

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Answer 4

Graeme_H

Level 1

60 points

Aug 7, 2009 4:57 PM in response to Deebs

As far as i remember the J30 deck is only dv25 not dv50- so using the SDI or analogue out would be a better way to go to preserve the quality of the original.

Of course as the other guys have said - it depends on your final format and any grading you need to do.

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Answer 5

Aug 7, 2009 6:26 PM in response to Graeme_H

Correct, that deck is DV25 only.

DV50, or DVCPro50 is pretty much the equivalent of DigiBeta, so, yes, it should be higher quality than BetaSP.

BetaSP as Uncompressed 8-bit, if captured correctly, is still a nice looking format, though. Especially with a 16mm source.

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Answer 6

Deebs Author

Level 1

5 points

Aug 7, 2009 6:59 PM in response to Deebs

Thank you for the responses! I'm renting the deck for the weekend. I'm only really equipped to go Firewire in/out directly or composite via a Canopus ADVC 110.

The end distribution will be DVD release with the possible cable TV pick up.

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Answer 7

Graeme_H

Level 1

60 points

Aug 7, 2009 8:52 PM in response to Deebs

Hi again
then i'd avoid the ADVC 110 and go straight from the FW25 port on the deck- that way you will capture time code too.

Then if your unhappy with the result you could recapture at a higher res at a later.

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Answer 8

Deebs Author

Level 1

5 points

Aug 9, 2009 11:37 AM in response to Deebs

I did Firewire and well..... I started looking around ebay for a capture card for my G5. The look is not "bad", but I can tell a degradation in color and it's a little softer than the original.

Does anyone understand the world of capture cards? I've see the AJA Kona LH and then I've seen AJA Kona 2 with break out boxes and cables. What do I need, and what's overkill?

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Answer 9

Graeme_H

Level 1

60 points

Aug 9, 2009 1:50 PM in response to Deebs

Hi
didn't think you would be happy with it- as you understand the quality of the original well- being a revisited project.

You really want a card that can capture 8-bit SD (as Thrillcat mentioned)
Blackmagic design make some good SDI / analogue cards which are very reasonable.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/
Check out the DeckLink and Intensity lines.

The limiting factor in what you choose- is going to be what type of PCI slot you have in your G5.
Over the G5 life cycle they came with every type of PCI interface- PCI, PCI X and PCI Express. some of the G5 even came with multiple PCI types.

So you need to check what your G5 has in the way of PCI expansion and go from there.

and also bare in mind that that the card that is compatible with your G5 may not be compatible with your new machine when you upgrade.

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Answer 10

Aug 9, 2009 1:54 PM in response to Deebs

I still stand by my original assertion that indeed, BetaSP is no better than dv.

SP is not uncompressed. It is bandwidth limited to a lower resolution than DV and DigiBeta. It is not 4:2:2 - because the chroma bandwidth is also limited to about 1/4 of full resolution luma. Just because people capture it uncompressed 4:2:2 does not mean that SP is that!!!

CaptM

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Answer 11

Graeme_H

Level 1

60 points

Aug 9, 2009 2:02 PM in response to Captain Mench

Hi Captain Mench
at the moment he is capturing at DV25 not DV50 so its more of an 'underkill' situation at present.
I assume it was a good telecine transfer and so it's worth going 'over' than 'under' for the dvd.

Graeme

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Answer 12

Deebs Author

Level 1

5 points

Aug 9, 2009 2:21 PM in response to Graeme_H

I appreciate the opinions. Thank you!

As I look at this footage off the master Betacam SP tapes, I think "ugh!". After working in nothing but DV for several years, I'm almost thinking of getting some of this stuff re-transferred to a digital or high def format. The eyes get spoiled! But who the heck has the money for that! After all, we were fresh out of film school then, and if I remember we got a really good deal on an older 16mm camera. Looking back, I'm sure the camera lens wasn't all we thought it was! (We transferred at 4MC in Burbank, for those of you who know LA).

I agree I'm probably not going to get a huge jump from using a capture card, but from what I'm reading, the pros do it that way when they have to work with Beta SP. I think trying to import 8 bit, uncompressed is a better bet, since compression is in my future anyway.

I'll continue to seek opinions, but most of all, figure out the hardware!

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Answer 13

Aug 9, 2009 2:40 PM in response to Graeme_H

So I should always capture my own DV as uncompressed to ensure a better DVD??

CaptM

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Answer 14

Graeme_H

Level 1

60 points

Aug 9, 2009 3:10 PM in response to Captain Mench

Captain
No with dv- you want to stay in codec.

If the project would significantly benefit from a final export in a different codec other than dv- e.g. inclusion of detailed graphics, or lots of compositing and color correction- then you might want to use a FCP sequence setting with a better codec than dv.
Graeme

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Answer 15

Aug 9, 2009 3:26 PM in response to Graeme_H

I'm borderline being a troll here and I don't really mean to be (- this is something that took a LONG time to come to grips with even for myself -- it is NOT held as gospel across any industry). However, I'm not sure what the difference is then. It IS important that what we are talking about is macintosh apples and granny smith apples. SP is an analog format and capturing digital makes the capture digital. But if you take the original SP blacks which aren't as rich as DV blacks and you take the chroma sampling which isn't as good as DV sampling then capturing it even at 8-bit isn't going to make it any better. Over sampling will only enhance the artifacts native to SP. What it MIGHT do is give you a stronger set of chroma to re-correct the 'even worse than dv' chroma blur.

Oversampling is going to cost some money in this case. Is it going to be worth it? I don't think so.

CaptM

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