best way to import fotomagico show to iDVD (iLife 09)

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best way to import fotomagico show to iDVD (iLife 09)

Hi guys, familiar question I'm sure.

Using iDVD (iLife 09) to make a DVD to be played on NTSC 16:9 TV screen
I created the template in iDVD (menus, intro movie etc..), but the main "feature" is a slideshow that I created using FOTOMAGICO.

Now my question is how to get the best quality onto the DVD (knowing that there are NTSC limitations of quality) ?

What format/settings should I save the slideshow in FOTOMAGICO? (HD 1080p? Quicktime? NTSC-DV ? Frame rates? etc.. any details you could provide would be helpful)

Next I need to import it to iDVD. How then should I save the DVD using iDVD for best quality?

Thanks for any suggestions. I wish there was a direct export to iDVD from fotomagico, but there isn't that I can tell.

Mike

iMac + MacBook, Mac OS X (10.5.7)

Posted on Aug 9, 2009 6:02 PM

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Answer 1

mikeypas Author

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16 points

Aug 9, 2009 6:20 PM in response to mikeypas

and just to add one more complication:
In case I wanted to import my fotomagico slideshow into iMovie 09, in order to creat chapter markers, then import the resulting iMovie 09 movie into iDVD, am I just losing more and more quality with each import/export ?

If not, what file formats would you recommend for each?
Fotomagico -> iDVD ? (best save format)
Fotomagico -> iMovie -> iDVD (best save format for each?)

Thanks again
Mike

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Answer 2

Aug 9, 2009 11:09 PM in response to mikeypas

on launch, Fotomagico asks you, what kind of display you will use.. Mac, TV (4:3/16:9), Projector..

DVDs are SD/Standard only and meant for.. TV.
in your area, NTSC/wide is the correct setting.
FM will export an AIC encoded file, which will import perfectly into iDVD

.. I wish there was a direct export to iDVD from fotomagico, but there isn't that I can tell.

Export, and choose 'DVD' in the drop-down menu.. at last, in my version.. (???)

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Answer 3

mikeypas Author

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Aug 9, 2009 11:30 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

Thank you Karsten for your reply!

My only question to your most helpful reply is that I have observed in many threads that you should import as high quality as possible into iDVD.
Exporting to DVD from fotomagico already reduces the quality to NTSC standards - if I import that into iDVD then burn a DVD, am I losing more quality compared to importing a higher quality quicktime?

Right now I am exporting to HD 1080p, its going to take all day I'm sure, and produce a 53GB file. I will try to import that into iDVD and then burn.
I tried a few quicktime profiles, NTSC-DV 1080P, and the result was 65GB. I've read about many different approaches to use (ie. using APPLE INTERMEDIATE CODEC, or H.264, DV) all producing super large >50GB files).

So any suggestions on what settings to use for a quicktime export to maximize quality for a iDVD import?

thanks again

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Answer 4

Aug 9, 2009 11:44 PM in response to mikeypas

mikeypas wrote:
.. you should import as high quality as possible into iDVD.. .

this is basicly correct.
but..
as you see in my screenshot, FM uses AIC as export codec.. which is Apple lossless-est codec for video, and it uses the correct res for widescreen.. h264 as intermediate is smaller, but much more compressed (=losses?).

so, I dare to say, any HIGHER res on export will not raise the quality.. it will be reduced anyhow..
me no programmer, don't know, how FM handles internally, but I assume, it's using the underlying QTengine.. as iDVD..

summary:
FM reduces res or iDVD does.. never tested, if that has any noticeable effect.

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Answer 5

mikeypas Author

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16 points

Aug 10, 2009 10:10 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

Karsten, when you're right, you're right!
I left two computers on overnight, one processing the fotomagico to export to DVD (as you mentioned) and the other one in HD 1080P.

Obviously, on my computer, using quicktime, the HD1080P .mov file was much nicer
However, once in iDVD, the .dv file (export to DVD) was much nicer, smoother slide transitions and movements, less picture artifact, etc..

So thank you for your advice! Ill use the other .mov file for computer viewing (and maybe XBOX 360 if I find the strength to try)

Just one last question, is there a difference between burning the project to DVD using iDVD, or saving a disc image and burning it using Toast 10? Ive read many posts about this but couldnt figure out why it would make a difference?

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Answer 6

Aug 10, 2009 1:18 PM in response to mikeypas

mikeypas wrote:
.. is there a difference between burning the project to DVD using iDVD, or saving a disc image and burning it using Toast 10? Ive read many posts about this but couldnt figure out why it would make a difference?

• you can check an image and use it as a DVD, by mounting it and using the DVDplayer app.. if you like to change things - no disk wasted..
• enviromental friendly, *good kharma* (ok, same effect with a -rw media.. )
• earlier versions of iDVD didn't allow a *manual set of burn-speed*; from experience, a slow-burn, 2-4x, gets best results.. DVDplayers are not as error-tolerant as audioCDplayers..
• some people store these .img as Masters for future copies of the DVD..
..

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Answer 7

mikeypas Author

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16 points

Aug 10, 2009 2:43 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

All make a lot of sense! Thanks in advance for your great answers !

- Does saving to DVD image produce the same quality as burning to DVD directly using iDVD? I assume that iDVD does all the encoding for both, so the resulting quality should be the same?

- I'm seeing a lot of artifact on the TV (not sure whether this is aliasing or interlace or moire , all terms i've read about.. its basically when a picture is zooming in, it looks like horizontal lines are moving)

I've read a lot about people's suggestions on how to fix this. Some say resize the photo before processing, etc.. any suggestions? I'm using >400 photos, so changing the resolution on each would be very time consuming..

- Also, is importing to iMovie 09 (to add chapter markers) resulting in loss of quality? would it help just to cut this step out entirely?
-When importing to iDVD, what is better to use - fotomagico export to DVD or fotomagico export to HD 1080p movie?
The "inspector" info for each are as follows:
1) HD 1080P movie : 1920x1080 H.264 Data rate: 8.8mbits/s
2) .DV DVD export : 720x480 DV data rate: 57mbits/s
3) HD 1080P movie after processed by iMovie and exported to iDVD: 960x540, AIC, data rate: 25mbits/s

don't know anymore what to do! The more I research this, the more complicated it becomes!

Thanks Karsten for your patience, and answers!!

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Answer 8

wpwj40e

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Aug 10, 2009 4:54 PM in response to mikeypas

I think you and I are asking the same question on several boards t the same time! I have now "tested" 20 different burns. To date the best has been as follows:

FM>HD>720p>iDVD

Make sure to set the iDVD preferences to pro quality.

That burn produces the least amount of jaggies/moving lines etc. I am now trying toast to see if any better. So far all my burn using FM>iDVD were best with either the 720p or 1080p under HD. The QT settings using either apple lossless or animation - regardless of the higher res produced too much "waviness or crawling" when used on a bigger screen. Less noticeable on a smaller display.

I also imported into iMovie - this was the second best - but the images were slightly blurrier. However the video did not have the waviness.

Still looking for answers on some of the QT settings and FM will NOT help here - have already tried. First pass at TOAST does not appear to improve anything - however have not tried the other settings yet.

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Answer 9

mikeypas Author

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16 points

Aug 10, 2009 5:18 PM in response to wpwj40e

Ah ThereseF! Glad we are trying to accomplish the same thing! Thanks for your post.
So essentially you are not using iMovie before importing to iDVD.

The HD export uses H.264 while the dvd export uses AIC. From what I understand from your post, is that H.264 is the way to go

Right now I am testing the following
a) FM -> export HD 1080p -> into iMovie -> export to iDVD -> burn using pro
b) FM -> export HD 1080p -> import to iDVD -> burn using pro
c) FM -> export to NTSC-DV -> import to iDVD -> burn using pro

obviously this takes a long time to do.. i am creating disk images so I can test them. i wonder if theres a way to view these disk images on my DVD without wasting a DVD?? i wonder if my XBOX 360 will read these disk images..

anyway, love to hear your thoughts
Mike

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Answer 10

wpwj40e

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Aug 10, 2009 5:58 PM in response to mikeypas

Not sure what you mean by "burn using pro". After you are done with your iDVD project - just click burn and there it goes. No need to go anywhere else with it. Should note that I am saving the HD 720 p and then dragging it into iDVD.

The iMovie added no value and degraded the recording. So I have deleted that from the workflow.

The.dv that FM does stinks compared to others. Have tested the results on 3 different sets (plasma, 58 ", plasma 46" and lcd 37")

I saw little difference between hd 1080p and hd 720p. The images from the 1080p seemed slightly darker and appeared to lose some shadow detail. Also have an imac and macbook pro. My macbook pro is faster - however the imac is respectable. For the 720p I am getting about a 45 minute workflow. About 22 minutes with FM, and then another 20-25 minutes in iDVD.

The 360 reads the images fine as a regular DVD (used xbobx, ps3, denon dvd, hd dvd and panasonic blu ray dvd to test).

I did all this because this dvd i am creating is for 25 friends and family and they all have different setups - so was trying to create something that "most" would be able to play with the best quality possible given the dvd limitations.

I have now burned 8 coasters with TOAST- i have concluded for me it is indeed TOAST as in BURNT. Ordered from Amazon - so back it goes. Packing it up as we speak. Others may love the software - instead it reminded me of why I switched to a MAC a few years back and I never want to go through the pain again. 8 hours of playing with toast is enough.

I am going to try two more tests using the settings mino gave on the photo forum. Just finished burning the first one a few minutes ago. Will let you know if it improves anything. But for right now I have concluded that HD720 is about the best bang for the time and size. Anything else may be so small an improvement as to not be worthwhile.

DO not bother watching the results on your computer...they will look far worse than your TV. So sorry to say you will be going from computer to tv to really see what the results are like.

WHy is your process taking so long?

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Answer 11

mikeypas Author

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16 points

Aug 10, 2009 6:08 PM in response to wpwj40e

First, when I said "burn using pro" I simply meant to say "professional quality setting in iDVD" (as you indicated in your previous post)..

I'm sure I'm going a bit googly eyed, this is much more involved than I thought!
My iMAC is a G5 3.06ghz intel core 2 duo (4gb ram). iDVD encoding takes about 2 hours! The fotomagico encoding took over 8! My macbook is a intel core duo 2ghz (2gb ram), so its slower.. poor lil' guy.

Firstly, how are you getting your XBOX to read the image files? I tried sharing using RIVET, but it doesnt pick up the .img or VIDEO_TS files. it will read the actual DVD disc, but not shared from my computer.. (if this could work, then i could preview what it would actually look like on my TV without having to burn DVDs)

Secondly, yes, I agree, anything viewed on my computer screen is not an accurate portrayal of what I would see on the TV. So I'm left to burn and see..

What is your issue with TOAST? I created several disk images from iDVD, but unfortunately dont have the projects anymore. Couldn't I just burn the disk image using TOAST as opposed to burning to DVD using iDVD ? Is there a difference?

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Answer 12

wpwj40e

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Aug 10, 2009 6:52 PM in response to mikeypas

Ah...Get the pro .... Have an intel mac - the FM encoding takes about 20 minutes for 720p and about 45 minutes for 1080p. Are you sure you are using the HD presets and not HDV? I will get a screenshot and post in my galleries.... I am not getting the xbox to read the image files - it is reading the finalized DVD. Although I could just use USB and go directly to my sets - but again not sure what the benefit of that would be. Really need the finalized DVD to see the "true results". Also be ware that your audio tracks if you have any will be off about .5 - 1.0 second. Had a few slides where this bothered me and I had to go back and adjust.

Roxio just got back with and apparently it is some known issues with the install from the pro disk - apparently need to spend about 30 minutes cleaning folders and such, reboot, download a special patch and then maybe am set to go. So at least I am not crazy - but way too close to dealing with windows software. Not sure I want to go through the effort. Well....probably will cause I want to see if the blu ray output is any better:)

You could use toast as opposed to iDVD. If you do - save the idvd image to disk and then drag into toast as a copy. Therefore minimizing the encoding etc. If you have toast working - would be curios to see if the results are better. It will be awhile before I can get toast to work - if ever:):) BTW - the settings from the photo board will take a very long time for you. I am at two hours on the FM encode - so if that is any indication - thats about 5 x that of the 720p preset from FM. If you are at 8 hours already - well.....do not think you want to try the QT settings posted there!

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Answer 13

mikeypas Author

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16 points

Aug 10, 2009 7:03 PM in response to wpwj40e

Got ya!
OK, so I'm running out of DVDs to destroy, I think I found a way for XBOX360 to read my project. I will save as an IMAGE, then copy the VOB files out of the image and rename the .VOB to .MPG I read somewhere this will work.. (will save me wasting DVDs and also will allow me to see picture quality on TV of final product).

My problem is that there are so many variables with each burn, in order to properly control for them, would require way too many DVDs
1) the effect of iMovie - I would like to add chapter markers to my movie. I wonder to what extent iMovie will degrade the quality.
2) Using iDVD burn to DVD, vs iDVD save image file then using toast to burn. I'm assuming (maybe wrongfully) that there shouldn't be a significant difference
3) movie format exported from FM.

I burned two discs, both with very different settings
#1 - FM export using HD 1080p (h.264), then import to iMovie, then share to iDVD and burnt with iDVD.
#2 - FM export to DVD (AIC, NTSC 16:9), then import to iDVD, save as image file and burnt with Toast

The image quality of #2 was vastly superior to #1 as viewed on my TV. This is attributable by much less artifact (aliasing/interlacing?) of #2 compared to #1 [although perhaps the image of #1 is sharper, but overall less pleasing due to the artifact]

So, now I want to test the same #2 setup, but putting iMovie into the workflow and determining if it has an effect

I also want to try exporting from FM to HD 720p (as you mentioned), and also QT AIC 720p, and trying those.. but the whole process would take days on my machines 😟

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Answer 14

wpwj40e

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Aug 10, 2009 7:19 PM in response to mikeypas

Just heard from Rick Rosen whom I had written asking for help. (He is the one that does the FM tutorials etc) Essentially the gist of what he advises is using WD solution for HD to the TV ....Well that works for me (and so does my mini connected, ,my apple tv and a variety of HD devices) but does not work for friends and family. So am down to playing with what we have gotten to. Gonna try and see if I get toast working to see if the workflow you have used in your second burn is any better.

What TV are you using to view playback?

So far have the following:
FM>idvd using DVD - too many artifacts
FM>using DVD> imovie>idvd - better - but still jaggies (think cruise ship balconies in lines like stadium seating and the havoc thats plays from a video perspective!)
FM>using 720p/1080p>imovie>idvd - slight artifacts - darker and softer images
FM>using FM QT defaults from FAQ's 720p/1080p >idvd - sharp images - way too many artifacts
FM>using HD 720p/1080p>iDVD - very little artifacts - soft images - but liveable

So will get my last few tests done and hopefully try out toast and will let you know!

If I didnt have 400 hours in creating the project already - might have just given up:(

Therese

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Answer 15

mikeypas Author

Level 1

16 points

Aug 10, 2009 7:34 PM in response to wpwj40e

Funny, from your list, the first option you mentioned, for me is the best ive tried

My TV is a Hitachi 57" rear projection 16:9
DVD player connected via component, XBOX HD-DVD player connected via component

Just to clarify, in fotomagico when you say you export to:
-DVD - creates a DV file. 720x480 (NTSC 16:9)
-720p/1080p - you are selecting Quicktime Movie? what settings are you using/ codec? there aren't any presets for 720p/1080p in quicktime movie (using fotomagico 3.0.5)
-HD 720p/1080p - I assume this is the H.264 output it creates when you select HD MOVIE.

And when you are outputting from iMovie, what are you doing? selecting share to iDVD? or export movie / export using quicktime??
- from the iMovie I made , i selected Share with iDVD and it created a Apple Intermediate Codec movie , 960x540

There are too many variables!!
I can't believe no one has mapped this stuff out! I feel like making a big excel spreadsheet and checking off what i've done so far..

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