Initial backup with TM fails partway

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Level 1

39 points

Initial backup with TM fails partway

Hi, and thanks for the help. I have actually searched and read, and am still puzzling on this.

I have a WD MyBook 500GB drive connected via USB to my new iMac. This drive has been functioning on my PC, but I have reconfig'ed it to a single partion (GPT) and formatted it with Mac OS Ext (Journaled). I even zeroed it and erased it. However, no matter what, my TM backup fails at about the same point.

I looked in Console at the "backupd" messages, found an Error 36 when I finally killed the hung process pointing to a particular iTunes TV show. I excluded that directory from TM, and restarted the backup. TM ran for another 30-40MB and hung again (on a different TV show.)

I've used First Aide in Disk Utility to both verify and repair the disk, and found no problems. It sounds like the drive to me, and since it is generally the same amount of time and volume (2 hours, 125GB all 3 attempts) perhaps a physical issue? It did work on the PC.

What do I use on the Mac to proceed from here? Thanks again.

iMac, Mac OS X (10.5.7)

Posted on Aug 11, 2009 9:42 PM

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Answer 1

Kappy

Level 10

362,023 points

Aug 11, 2009 10:08 PM in response to derring do

A -36 error often means the item involved has a filename that is either too long or contains illegal characters. It can also mean the item is damaged/corrupted or too large.

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Answer 2

derring do Author

Level 1

39 points

Aug 11, 2009 10:24 PM in response to Kappy

Let me grab the console sequence for the messages. The 36 doesn't come until the TM process has tried for over an hour to backup something and finally fails (or I kill it.) Once I excluded that file's directory, the same thing happened on another directory. They are iTunes video files, which still play just fine.

*This is the series of messages:*
/System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Backup requested by user
(various ones explained in the FAQ)
*/System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Waiting for index to be ready (909 > 0)* --- After this message, the backupd wrote nothing until I killed the process, 3 hours later, then wrote out the Error 36 below

/System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Error: (-36) SrcErr:NO Copying /Users/edge/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/TV Shows/Dexter/09 Father Knows Best.m4v to /Volumes/Backup Book/Backups.backupdb/Struedel/2009-08-11-154932.inProgress/09DA10D4-6BC8-474B- ACA6-33A0AB3C4BDC/Struedel HD/Users/edge/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/TV Shows/Dexter

Is it likely that the file is the problem, if once excluded, other files cause TM to show the same behavior?

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Answer 3

derring do Author

Level 1

39 points

Aug 12, 2009 7:32 AM in response to derring do

I've cross-posted to an older thread with the same problem here: http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9977866#9977866 in case anyone else searches, and there is an answer in either place.

Googling and searching here reveals quite a number of similar problems, with lots of guesses and no real issues. Many people have said the backup dies on movie files (because they're large?) but no one is sure.

I'm still not understanding the way Apple handles the "formatting" of the external when switching it to Mac OS ext - for a PC person it just doesn't appear to be a low-level format. I'm going to yank the drive back to the PC and see if I can find a problem there, then start over on the Mac... again.

Advice still gratefully accepted.

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Answer 4

derring do Author

Level 1

39 points

Aug 12, 2009 8:07 AM in response to derring do

I've gone back to the console to be a bit more rigorous in my dissection of this problem. It seemed to me that limiting the messages merely to "backupd" might be obscuring the problem, so I removed that filter, and just walked through the relevant times. It brought out a lot of other interesting data.

The gist is that after the 909 message (error?) the backup progresses for 2-1/2 hours and then begins to get bus times out. After that I begin getting disk I/O errors, and other errors related to writing out of the journal. Eventually, about 7PM I killed the disk and the process, which took quite a while, and finally generated the Error 36 which I no longer think was a precipitating event.

Does this make a solution any clearer to folks with experience? 🙂 Thanks!

Console data:

8/11/09 3:49:32 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Backup requested by user
8/11/09 3:49:32 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Starting standard backup
8/11/09 3:49:32 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Backing up to: /Volumes/Backup Book/Backups.backupdb
8/11/09 3:49:32 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Ownership is disabled on the backup destination volume. Enabling.
8/11/09 3:49:33 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Event store UUIDs don't match for volume: Struedel HD
8/11/09 3:49:33 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Backup content size: 270.6 GB excluded items size: 66.1 MB for volume Struedel HD
8/11/09 3:49:33 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] No pre-backup thinning needed: 324.68 GB requested (including padding), 465.29 GB available
8/11/09 3:49:33 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Waiting for index to be ready (909 > 0)

+*Some gap in relevant messages...*+

8/11/09 6:22:56 PM kernel USBF: 33380.352 AppleUSBEHCI[0x7834000]::Found a transaction past the completion deadline on bus 0x24, timing out! (Addr: 2, EP: 1)

*+From here on, kernel writes out this message every 30 seconds... I think we've found the hang-point+*

*+From here on there are i/o errors on the external drive about every 3 minutes, still mixed with the bus times out:+*
8/11/09 6:34:48 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.
8/11/09 6:37:54 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.

*+At 6:42 another i/o error along with 2 new errors:+*
8/11/09 6:42:02 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.
8/11/09 6:42:02 PM kernel jnl: disk1s2: do jnlio: strategy err 0x5
8/11/09 6:42:02 PM kernel jnl: disk1s2: write journalheader: error writing the journal header!

8/11/09 6:49:16 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.

*+...with many more bus i/o times out in between and continuing, until I killed the process and the disk. Only after that did I get the error 36 failure.+*

8/11/09 6:59:36 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.
8/11/09 6:59:36 PM kernel jnl: disk1s2: do jnlio: strategy err 0x5
8/11/09 6:59:36 PM kernel jnl: disk1s2: end_transaction: only wrote 0 of 33280 bytes to the journal!
8/11/09 7:10:39 PM kernel disk1s2: device/channel is not attached.
8/11/09 7:10:39 PM kernel disk1s2: device/channel is not attached.
8/11/09 7:10:39 PM kernel disk1s2: media is not present.
8/11/09 7:10:39 PM kernel disk1s2: media is not present.
8/11/09 7:10:39 PM /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd[1131] Error: (-36) SrcErr:NO Copying /Users/edge/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/TV Shows/Dexter/09 Father Knows Best.m4v to /Volumes/Backup Book/Backups.backupdb/Struedel/2009-08-11-154932.inProgress/09DA10D4-6BC8-474B- ACA6-33A0AB3C4BDC/Struedel HD/Users/edge/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/TV Shows/Dexter

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Answer 5

Kappy

Level 10

362,023 points

Aug 12, 2009 1:29 PM in response to derring do

My guess is there's a problem on the backup drive. I would just reformat the drive but follow this procedure:

Extended Hard Drive Preparation

1. Open Disk Utility in your Utilities folder. If you need to reformat your startup volume, then you must boot from your OS X Installer Disc. After the installer loads select your language and click on the Continue button. When the menu bar appears select Disk Utility from the Installer menu (Utilities menu for Tiger or Leopard.)

2. After DU loads select your hard drive (this is the entry with the mfgr.'s ID and size) from the left side list. Note the SMART status of the drive in DU's status area. If it does not say "Verified" then the drive is failing or has failed and will need replacing. SMART info will not be reported on external drives. Otherwise, click on the Partition tab in the DU main window.

3. Under the Volume Scheme heading set the number of partitions from the drop down menu to one. Set the format type to Mac OS Extended (Journaled.) Click on the Options button, set the partition scheme to GUID (for Intel Macs) or APM (for PPC Macs) then click on the OK button. Click on the Partition button and wait until the process has completed.

4. Select the volume you just created (this is the sub-entry under the drive entry) from the left side list. Click on the Erase tab in the DU main window.

5. Set the format type to Mac OS Extended (Journaled.) Click on the Options button, check the button for Zero Data and click on OK to return to the Erase window.

6. Click on the Erase button. The format process can take up to several hours depending upon the drive size.

It's important that the drive be partitioned using GUID for an Intel Mac and formatted Mac OS Extended, Journaled for use with Time Machine.

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Answer 6

derring do Author

Level 1

39 points

Aug 12, 2009 1:42 PM in response to Kappy

Thanks for the post, I appreciate the time. I had run into this a while back, and have been thru the process several times now.

Currently working with an Apple TM product specialist, who is also not having much luck sorting out the issue. We're using Capture Data to grab some data from the Mac, and he's going to send it to their engineering department.

I will post back here if we come up with a solution, so future searchers aren't left hanging.

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Answer 7

derring do Author

Level 1

39 points

Aug 12, 2009 1:50 PM in response to derring do

Sorry, that wasn't clear in my post. I meant that someone had pointed out the format procedure you posted, and I have followed it, the several times I've tried this whole process. I am still attempting to backup for the first time on this iMac.

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Answer 8

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Aug 12, 2009 2:06 PM in response to derring do

derring do wrote:

8/11/09 6:34:48 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.
8/11/09 6:37:54 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.

8/11/09 6:42:02 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.
8/11/09 6:42:02 PM kernel jnl: disk1s2: do jnlio: strategy err 0x5
8/11/09 6:42:02 PM kernel jnl: disk1s2: write journalheader: error writing the journal header!

8/11/09 6:49:16 PM kernel disk1s2: I/O error.

As Kappy says, this is clear: there's a problem with that disk.

If by chance you have more than one internal and one external disk, use System Profiler (in your Applications/Utilities folder, or click the Apple menu, then +About this Mac,+ them +More Info+ to be sure which one this is.

In the sidebar, select Serial-ATA to look at your internal disk(s); either FireWire or the USB for externals.

Find the +*BSD Name+* of disk1s2. That's the culprit.

If Disk Utility can't fix it with +Repair Disk+ (not permissions), it's likely the disk itself. You may be able to erase it and use it again, but if this has happened more than once, I would not trust my primary backups to it.

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Answer 9

derring do Author

Level 1

39 points

Aug 12, 2009 2:25 PM in response to Pondini

Thank you for the post, I appreciate your time. I only have the one external, so I know which one it is.

I do see that there is a problem with the Mac communicating with the drive, but I'm not certain we've established yet that it is the drive. There are dozens of bus timeouts messages, and I'm still thinking that the Mac loses connection to the drive in some fashion - cable, port, drive, whatever, and that the loss of connection is what triggers that disk i/o error. Clearly I'm not sure, or I wouldn't be here.

Disk utility has been over this drive many times, finding no trouble. I even wrote out all the zeroes, thinking that would definitely fail if it was a sector problem, but it did not. I've already erased this several times, in the ongoing circle of attempting to get this to work.

Again, thanks for your help. It's probably the drive, but it was working fine on the PC and I'm hoping Apple will give me a little more info on what's going wrong.

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Answer 10

Aug 20, 2009 5:58 PM in response to derring do

hi all...i am not too sure whether anyone is still following this thread...but I really felt obligated to give my inputs..

I have a macbook pro running 10.5.8....and I have a western digital passport studio on firewire 800.
I use the disk as my time machine backup...

Pre 10.5.8, the disk was working perfectly...firewire backups were fast and time machine did not have any problems...

but on 10.5.8., the disk was unmounted automatically and abruptly...without any reason...
Leopard usd to then throw a warning saying that the disconnection might have screwed the disk..

I initially thought that the firewire bus on my logic board had conked out and I did not even have apple care ...!! I ran the AHT and I did get a 4SNS error code..indicating that there is a problem with the logic board..(as per some forums..)

So I spent 2 days like a wandering minstrel trying to sing my sorrow song in almost any forum I came across..but to no avail....the disk mounted only for a few minutes on firewire and then would automatically disconnect...USB was working fine though...

but today...I am glad to tell y'll that the disk is up and running...the steps i took were :

1) uninstall the WD drive manager and the turbo drivers..
2) i had noticed in the logs that busy sync app was throwing an exception after which the drive used to get disconnected..so I uninstalled that ..
3) in the terminal..run the command...'sudo periodic daily weekly monthly' and type in your passowrd..allow it to do its thing
4) unplug your MBP restart the computer with alt-apple-P-R keys pressed..let your MBP chime for atleast 3 times...after which allow the MBP to proceed with the boot
5) shut down the MBP and remove the battery
6) press the power button for 5-6 seconds..more if u like to press buttons.. 🙂
7) install the battery and boot...
8) connect ur firewire disk
9) look up to the sky on your knees and pray...

this worked for me....

hope it works for you all...

I am still not sure what to do with the AHT results though...

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Answer 11

Aug 21, 2009 9:18 PM in response to derring do

An update here..installed busy sync..and the disk still continues to work...
The lesson for me from all this is that we should do a reset after installing a major update..this will help us to preserve our sanity...

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Answer 12

Aug 22, 2009 3:32 AM in response to macjunk(ie)

I have been getting an error 11, and after researching all the discussions on this and similar back up failures, it would seem the common culprit is the version update. I have a macbook pro I haven't updated to 10.5.8 yet, still on .7 and it is working fine. If anyone finds out a fix for this please continue to post. I have tried all the listed solutions and to no avail. I am getting hung up on iTunes video files. Won't go past that point and that as well as photo files seem to be common stopping points for others too. I hope Apple recognizes this and gets something out soon. As for now, I can't do any Time Machine back ups. Anymore discoveries are appreciated.
Also, to macjunkie, what do you mean by a reset after installing a major update?

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Answer 13

Aug 22, 2009 5:39 AM in response to sheilah77

When I say reset..I mean steps 3 to 7..i think these steps constitute what apple calls as nvram and smc reset...

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Answer 14

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Aug 22, 2009 7:51 AM in response to sheilah77

sheilah77 wrote:
I have been getting an error 11, and after researching all the discussions on this and similar back up failures, it would seem the common culprit is the version update. I have a macbook pro I haven't updated to 10.5.8 yet, still on .7 and it is working fine. If anyone finds out a fix for this please continue to post. I have tried all the listed solutions and to no avail.

Hi, and welcome to the forums.

Did you do a +*Repair Permissions+* on your internal HD after performing the update? If not, use Disk Utility (in your Applications/Utilities folder) to do so.

If that doesn't help, follow the procedures in with item #C3 of the Time Machine - Troubleshooting *User Tip* at the top of this forum.

If that doesn't help, post back with details, including all the messages, your setup (especially the destination for the backups), what you've done, and the results.

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Answer 15

derring do Author

Level 1

39 points

Aug 28, 2009 9:46 AM in response to Pondini

Okay, perhaps slightly different issues with both the new posters, this is a 10.5.7 issue for me, and USB, not firewire. Of course, I'm not sure if it is always a WD issue, either.

Have let Apple steep the issue for 2 weeks, but will be following up with them here shortly, to see if the data capture I forwarded them of the initial time machine backup failure leads to any enlightenment.

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