13 Replies Latest reply: Nov 23, 2009 1:32 PM by dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag
dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
Does anyone know if you can change the Aperture format for latitude and longitude? Most people (and devices) use degrees, minutes, and tenths of minutes ... Aperture uses the more arcane (and visually way less intuitive) format of degree, minutes, seconds, and tenths of seconds. I've got my Nikon, mapping, and electronic charting software all using the former but Aperture is converting and showing the latter. I've looked in the manual (grin!) and the preferences but nothing. Any suggestions? Thanx, Mark

Many, Mac OS X (10.5.5)
  • Allan Eckert Level 8 Level 8 (47,430 points)
    Hi dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag;

    Here is the GPS data from a shot I took yesterday with my Nikon D300 and GP-1 as seen in Aperture.

    39º 38' 5.513" N
    105º 19' 56.027" W

    Allan
    tiger
  • Steve Hoge Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)
    The EXIF spec allows for either representation. (Display formatting of geo coordinates using fractional seconds is the default for the exiftool that is used by most geotagging software, but it can also display fractional minutes as an alternative.)

    What part of your workflow breaks when it sees a representation in fractional seconds?
  • dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thanks Allan and Steve!

    I'm sorry I let this post wither ... I thought I was subscribed to answers and that no one had responded. I wasn't so didn't see that I had any responses until I posted a new question today, re: Snow Leopard and Boolean operator searches in AB.

    Sorry.

    Anyway, I'm using a D90 and the GP-1 but I'm only seeing the long mess for lat/long in Aperture versus what you're seeing Allan.

    What do I have set differently (wrong in my case) in Aperture ... on in the Nikon?
  • Steve Hoge Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)
    Welcome back to the thread!

    So is there something in your workflow that breaks when this extra precision is present?

    Or are you simply looking for consistency of representation in the user interface?
  • dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    It's not a precision thing, it's just the consistency of representation as you say.

    I'm a boater used to seeing lat/long in conventional representation versus a long numeric string. In fact, it's pretty useless to me in that format because there is too much mental calculation required to quickly interpret "about" where I shot the photo.

    Any ideas or suggestions to get me where Allan is?
  • Steve Hoge Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)
    The first thing to find out is where that extra (superfluous) precision is being generated.

    In your Nikon camera?

    From a mapping application like Google or a Google-map enabled plugin like Maperture?

    Or somewhere else in your workflow?

    Determining the source of that info would then determine how to build a workflow that truncates the info to the acceptable precision.

    Aperture won't allow you to directly manipulate the master file's EXIF lat/long metadata with an Applescript, but you could certainly build an Applescript that calls the open-source utility exiftool to modify the lat/long coordinates of a selected group of Aperture's image files (shelling out to exiftool is the technique used by Maperture to embed GPS data.)

    -Steve
    http://web.mac.com/steve_hoge
  • dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    The change is definitely happening in Aperture. I also have a Nikon (D90) and it uses the more common format I described (above) and is depicted (below).

    In Allan's example (above), his Nikon would read:

    39º 38.092
    105º 19.934

    That is how latitude/longitude is typically expressed in the boating world (GPS, charting applications, cruising guides, etc.).

    And it's much easier to read and intuit as you are "a little above" or "almost" or whatever versus having to the divide by 60 or multiply by 6 mental nonsense.

    My question is simple ... does Apple/Aperture have a way to change latitude and longitude format? All other software applications that accept position data do.

    Thanks again,
  • Steve Hoge Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)
    dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag wrote:
    My question is simple ... does Apple/Aperture have a way to change latitude and longitude format?


    Sorry, I get it now: you're interested simply in changing the display format in Aperture, not modifying the actual lat/long precision or internal representation. So a quick (qualified) answer to your question would be "no".

    That said, new methods could be written for displaying latitude and longitude and patched into the formatterClass fields of the Latitude and Longitude properties in the file:
    Aperture.app/Contents/Resources/FactoryProperties.plist.

    Maybe some Objective-C programmers out there might have some insight into how to accomplish this.

    -Steve
    http://web.mac.com/steve_hoge
  • dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Seems odd that Apple would not make this simple "math conversion" and "format choice" available in preferences. As I said, most of the world is doing the abbreviated decimal format thing, not the more lengthy and visually confusing (punctuation heavy) degrees, minutes, seconds, and tenths of seconds representation.

    Especially with all of their arm-waving about geotagging and "faces & places" being the next big thing ...

    I'm new here; do you know if Apple people ever read these threads? And if so, respond?
  • Steve Hoge Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)
    dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag wrote:
    Seems odd that Apple would not make this simple "math conversion" and "format choice" available in preferences.


    I'd think that these days, when not so many people are actually using lat/long values to read physical maps, GPS data is mostly considered machine-readable data and not primarily for human visual consumption. For instance, Google Maps use internal lat/long representations like "lng =-105.270352" which seems even less human-friendly.

    As far as human-readable representations, Google Earth displays coordinates like "105°16'48.47"W"; some would consider Google to be the 800-lb gorilla of GIS at this point.

    I'm new here; do you know if Apple people ever read these threads? And if so, respond?


    They seem to be lurking out there, but almost never post as official representatives (with some exceptions apparently for marketing people; Joe Schorr, the Aperture product manager, used to post alot in the Aperture forum but hasn't been heard from directly for quite a while...)

    -Steve
    http://web.mac.com/steve_hoge
  • dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for keeping this thread alive with me. Maybe we can get someone in Cupertino interested ...

    Unfortunately, this is what I find happens with Apple quite frequently. They make assumptions, re: the general computing consumer market and spread it like peanut butter over the rest of the world.

    Even you have fallen into this 800 lb. chasm:

    [clip]
    I'd think that these days, when not so many people are actually using lat/long values to read physical maps, GPS data is mostly considered machine-readable data and not primarily for human visual consumption. For instance, Google Maps use internal lat/long representations like "lng =-105.270352" which seems even less human-friendly.

    As far as human-readable representations, Google Earth displays coordinates like "105°16'48.47"W"; some would consider Google to be the 800-lb gorilla of GIS at this point.
    [clip]

    Actually, we write cruising guides for boaters and that industry ain't Googlin' aboard. In fact, the computers get kinda wet whenever you try! [smile]

    It's a Garmin, Furuno, Raymarine electronic world ... complemented with hardcopy reference material (hopefully ours!). And that world doesn't use either of the two representations you mention.

    I just looked in a few of the maine applications that I have on my computer and they ALL have no less than FIVE preference-level formats the user can choose to read latitude/longitude.

    Apple is also missing the point that different countries prefer different localization of this position data ... similar to date/time stamping, etc.

    Mr. Schorr, are you out there? [smile]

    Best,

    Mark
  • Steve Hoge Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)
    dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag wrote:
    Apple is also missing the point that different countries prefer different localization of this position data ... similar to date/time stamping, etc.


    I just looked to see if changes in System Preferences->Language & Text regionalization might have any effect on Lat/Long display, but switching to a few different regions (UK, India, Singapore) didn't produce any change in Aperture's lat/long display formats.

    Placing GPS formatting in that system preference panel would probably be "the right way" to do it, just as is done for currency and date formatting; then the RKGpsLatitudeFormatter and RKGpsLongitudeFormatter methods could be modified to become location-aware. Are there established regional variations??

    I would have thought mariners would be hold-outs for the historical *degrees/minutes/fractional seconds* representation. So the marine standard these days is *degrees/fractional minutes* ?

    -Steve
    http://web.mac.com/steve_hoge
  • dsgahathjsfhDSRgsfsag Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    thanx steve. good thinking. too bad it didn't work ... but it really would need a preference setting. different strokes ... [smile]

    yes and yes.

    now let's see if apple chimes in on this topic someday.

    best,