Altered Font Spacing Crippling for Designers

I still have fonts that Quark 8.12 thinks are 'missing' in 10.6.2. Nearly all fonts from the Bitstream Typeshop 3 library don't work at all.

10.6.2 fixed all my font issues, but I use InDesign (which never had any font issues with 10.6.2, nor did any of the rest of Adobe CS4) instead of Quark. Apparently Quark may still have issues. FWIW, I was forced by a client to switch from Quark to InDesign several years ago, and it's one of the best things that ever happened to me. Not saying everyone should switch, but you might consider it.

And gee, Kurt Lang was so sure there would be a fix too.

And gee, I never said there would be a fix, I said they were working on it. Which they were quite steadily through 4 rounds of beta releases for 10.6.2. Apple was also working closely with Quark throughout the process.

In the end, we seem to have gotten here:

1) As long as they're not damaged, OpenType fonts are working perfectly between Leopard and Snow Leopard. Whether purchased as an OpenType font, or converted from an older Type 1 font, I've yet to see one with so much as a pixel difference in spacing or kerning.

2) Type 1 fonts are working for most folks now as they expect. We're still seeing some problems, but it's hard to nail the problem down when most fonts in a purchased set work fine, but others from the same folio don't.

3) The biggest issue. Quark seems to be the lone problem here. Even in 10.6.1 (except for 10.6.1's known major leading issue with some fonts), InDesign, Word, and other apps, I had ZERO problems matching font metrics between Leopard and Snow Leopard. OpenType, Type 1, Mac legacy TrueType, didn't matter. All work now in 10.6.2 as they should all the time except in Quark.

This hardly helps those with a strong Quark workflow, but I don't know what you expect me to personally do about it.

{quote}The biggest issue. Quark seems to be the lone problem here.{quote}

This is not true since Adobe Flash CS3 & CS4 have the same issue. Very frustrating. Worst of all, sometimes when I open a file in Flash the font spacing is fine, other times, it is messed up just like 10.6.1! Some fonts are completely messed up and Flash says that it cannot render them correctly (even in 10.6.2)!

This is not true since Adobe Flash CS3 & CS4 have the same issue.

Oh! Yes, I've certainly seen enough posts about that for 10.6.2. Don't know why I forgot it.

FileMaker too...

Jerremy Jones1 wrote:
FileMaker too...

Seconded. Filemaker (9 or 10) Layouts/Fields that use Type 1's have severe leading changes from the same fields/layouts under Leopard (or Tiger). No amount of cache cleaning or dorking around has fixed this problem, and 10.6.2 is no different than 10.6.1 or 10.6.0.

Anybody else having problems with InDesign CS4 and Fusion 2? After activating fonts in Suitcase 2, InDesign will still not show the activated font in the menus, other CS4 apps will. The conflicting system fonts do not deactivate in any of the CS4 apps. I'm referring to fonts that are in conflict with a system font.

Message was edited by: seasterling

Geez I really hope Apple start sorting out this issue. I upgraded my office laptop... wish i'd never bothered. Luckily I always upgrade my own mac before the rest of the studio and I can say i sure won't be upgrading anyone else in a hurry!

I've got issue with most font displays, especially CS4, Filemaker 10 and Firefox 3.5.5, had to sort out the fonts for use with UTS 2 which took an hour.

I really wonder why anyone would take the decision to not support postscript 1 fonts!!!! I know lets make all the designers have to go and buy all their fonts again.

C'mon Apple your better than that, Ive always loved your stuff since 91 when I got my first Mac and I've not been so disappointed with you since... well until now really.

Found this devastatingly helpful thread after encountering severe font issues in Flash CS3. Type 1, Truetype and OpenType, the lot. Wonder what's next.

Relied on Apple for almost 20 years but since I am not planning to convert thousands of fonts, to change countless design files nor to update to CS4 with an uncertain outcome, could anyone advise me on how to downgrade to 10.5.8 safely? Or should I change to Windows XP?

From the original CD, from Time Machine (what is to retrieve?) or not a good idea at all? Thanks!!

Fundinuk wrote:
I really wonder why anyone would take the decision to not support postscript 1 fonts!!!! I know lets make all the designers have to go and buy all their fonts again.

At a certain point you have to abandon older technology to move forward.

There's a good read on this here:

http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2005/10/phasingouttyp.html

Thomas Phinney of Adobe had this to say on the subject back in 2005:

People expect their fonts to continue to work forever. But when thinking about Type 1 eventually going away, it’s worth keeping in mind the value that customers have gotten from their Type 1 fonts over the years. What other software do you have that you bought in the late 1980s that still works today? It's amazing that these things have had such a long lifespan. We still get occasional tech support calls for an issue that we fixed in two Type 1 font families in 1993!

Of course, a lot of people don't think of fonts as software, but that's really what they are: little plug-ins to your system software. The operating system vendors now have the Type 1 rasterizer code in their OSes, and it's up to them whether they support it moving forwards.

Compare to say, my PowerMac Quad G5, which cannot run Snow Leopard and (once again) Adobe will stop supporting with Flash updates, even though it's not even four years old.

Well, as we who work in the trenches of the printing industry keep trying to tell you ivory tower types, many, if not most, printing customers have no idea (1) what kind of fonts they have, (2) where they came from, or (3) why printing companies have so much trouble with their files and fonts. They also DO NOT CARE. If you won't print their job, they'll keep taking it from printer to printer until they find some bottom-feeder who will.

This is not going to change any time soon, and it certainly won't change from top-down edicts from Apple Computing. Yes, we upgrade our applications, some sooner, some later. No, the vast majority of corporate art departments, home-based "desktop publishers" and commercial art studios have enormous investments in Type 1 fonts, no idea where they came from (yes, most are probably pirated, especially the pre-1991 versions that continue to show up with jobs), and will just give you that "deer in headlights" look if you try to tell them any of this.

How does this rant help in any way but make yourself feel justified by being in a career that you obviously are very disgruntled in? You're not helping your cause man... it's printers' attitudes like yours that make the client move on to another -- not the fact that you don't approve of their lack of font prowess.

Say what? Your point would be?

The discussion I'm reacting to is why in **** it is so necessary to drop support for Type 1 fonts while they're still a perfectly functional format.