Previous 1 2 3 Next 130 Replies Latest reply: Aug 9, 2010 9:05 AM by narc_monkey
narc_monkey Level 1 (0 points)
Installed Snow Leopard on the first day, not a good idea. I am a graphic designer, I work in Quark and the Adobe Suite, with Suitcase Fusion 2. That said, not long (a couple hours) after I made the jump to Snow Leopard, I had work to do.

I open my first flash doc, activate Univers PostScript and I notice my whole layout has gone sour. This is because an extra bit of vertical padding is being added at the top of my text. It happens with some TrueType and OpenType fonts as well, while some others are not subject to the spacing issues. Very odd, and very menacing.

So far I have seen this as a major problem resulting in alot of reformatting on several occasions. Anyone else had this issue? Is Apple going to patch this or are there any workarounds? When they do, are all the files I have now fixed going to re-flow with poor vertical spacing in the opposite direction? When I send my collected files to people running 10.5, are my text fixes going to effect how the documents are displayed on their machines? I can't have this, I would have expected Apple of all developers to take this into consideration, especially with the volume of designers that pay the extra cash use their products.

iMac Intel 3.06GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.6)
  • narc_monkey Level 1 (0 points)
    Just to note, I have downgraded back to Leopard and the problem has fixed itself. Let it be known to Apple that this font issue is going to anger alot of designers. Please fix the way the system renders fonts. Thanks!
  • neodar Level 1 (5 points)
    Agree with you, fonts completely reflowed. Suitcase Fusion 2 not being compatible yet (30 days allegedly) means there's no obvious way to replace dodgy system font maps, such as Helvetica Neue, with nice clean Adobe ones. Impossible for designers - complete waste of time and money so far.
  • Emmett H Level 1 (0 points)
    I had exactly the same situation. All documents in Quark have reflowed due to irregular spacing on fonts. I have also reverted to 10.5.8.

    Why would they do this??
  • narc_monkey Level 1 (0 points)
    They hit us designers right there it hurts....

    right in the fonts.

    I had rush revisions to a flash doc during the 3 day period I had snow leopard, and I fixed all the spacing. Now that I reverted to Leopard, the spacing is wrong in the other direction. Thanks Apple!

    Just to reiterate, the problem is about 2.5pts (on 12 pt text) of padding on the top and bottom of random PostScript, OpenType, and even some TrueType fonts in Snow Leopard. I won't be touching Snow Leopard again until this is resolved completely. Will keep an eye on posted updates. I will be sure to tell all my designer friends/colleagues to postpone their jump to Apple's new OS as well.

    Its a shame, because the extra speed was excellent. EVERYTHING was faster.
  • James Miller. Level 1 (20 points)
    Yep, right where is hurts. Quark has a whole other set of trouble. Restoring back to leopard. Thanks Apple for a couple of wasted days.

    Are you using Suitcase?
  • narc_monkey Level 1 (0 points)
    Yup, Suitcase Fusion 2, Quark 8, Adobe CS3 and the rendering issue even shows up in the Font Previews in Suitcase, Flash, and Illustrator. It's everywhere. It seems to me like a system-level font rendering issue. (Not that I know what I am talking about)

    Waste of time indeed! Luckily original Leopard is still awesome.
  • James Miller. Level 1 (20 points)
    I removed the Fusion core out of the preference pane as console was throwing up lots of suitcase errors. Helped a little.

    Have you found that Quark 8 looses it normal postscript PPDs export for distiller and the colour profiles have gone. Now updating pictures renders the pics in a different colour space. I had to re download ICC colour profiles and then link them into Quark.

    I've rolled back to Leopard on one mac, nice to back to normal on that one, just like the last couple of days didn't happen.
  • narc_monkey Level 1 (0 points)
    If I had the time, I would definitely have investigated the bugs further, but I got hit with a huge brochure in the middle of the day, and the font issue completely obliterated the layout. I had to pass it off to My Senior Art director D: and spend time reinstalling leopard and get my computer back for the next day (I work offsite for an agency).

    I am going to wait for a few things before going near Snow Leopard again:

    • Mac OS X 10.6 update that addresses font rendering
    • Quark Update
    • Suitcase Fusion 2 Update
    • Adobe CS update

    I think at that time, I will check out what people are saying about fonts, and maybe try out the upgrade again at on a weekend. Its a shame really, because fonts were the only thing I had a problem with. The speed of finder, and other apple components was phenomenal. Though I noticed remote AFP access was much slower than under 10.5.8. Also, the installer removed my iLife apps that came bundled with my computer originally, that was annoying. I thought this update was 32-bit and 64-bit compatible.

    Message was edited by: narc_monkey

    Message was edited by: narc_monkey
  • neodar Level 1 (5 points)
    Noticed that Suitcase Fusion 13.2 update is now out. Has anyone been brave enough to try it with Snow Leopard yet - and, in particular, does it 1. resolve the Helvetica Neue Postscript vs System issue and 2. solve the baseline shift/leading problems in Quark 8.1 causing reflow?
  • Steve Mouzon Level 2 (215 points)
    Suitcase Fusion was updated yesterday... I downloaded and installed, but had worse font problems than before. More fonts were accessible, but many of the characters were gobbledygook. I ended up having to completely ditch Suitcase and move my most common fonts to the system library fonts folder. I can now see all of the proper characters, but have the same leading problem others are experiencing. In most cases, it's adding leading, but in at least one case (Bembo) it's reducing the leading. HELP!!! Wish I could go back, but I didn't do a clone and don't have time to mess with all the implications of backwards migration at this point.
  • narc_monkey Level 1 (0 points)
    Oh boy, sorry to see everyone still having issues. I am staying with Leopard indefinitely. The office I work for is staying with Leopard, and I am remote, so having my fonts display differently, only to share the files with people on Leopard will not do. Plus we have 800GB of already completed jobs that we constantly pick from, so having to reformat every time is not an option.

    Apple can't expect Extensis to fix this, its a system-level problem. I would recommend anyone experiencing it to revert to Leopard, you will have problems when sending Quark Collected to a printer with Leopard, and I am sure a myriad of other issues. I didn't have a clone of my drive when I reverted, but it was definitely worth the few hours it took to reinstall software and clean house on my mac to get back to work.

    Plus, a clean install runs quicker than one loaded with useless preference and application support files, and it gives you a chance to rethink your filing system... Just make sure you have all the necessary software available to you, you back up ALL your documents, and take it piece by piece. Also, make sure to run in "Archive & Install", you will have all your files to reference and use in a Previous Systems folder on your Macintosh HD.

    Good Luck!
  • Kurt Lang Level 8 (36,660 points)

    I grabbed various fonts (a mix of OpenType PostScript and Type 1 PostScript, .dfont, even an old OS 9 TrueType font) at random and created a four page Quark 8 document with facing pages. Placed a text box on each page and linked them, then filled it with text from a standing document. From there, I randomly changed blocks of text from the default Times New Roman to some of the fonts I opened.

    Once I had a simple document full of various fonts, I saved it as a PDF. Comparing PDF to the Quark document in Leopard showed that they matched, as expected.

    I then started up in Snow Leopard and copied the fonts, document and PDF file over. Activated the fonts, opened the Quark document and PDF file. The text started reflowing on page 3. I had used a couple of OpenType fonts and one Type 1 PS font earlier, but the one that really screwed up was a Type 1 PS font I had pulled from an Illustrator 9 disk, so there's no doubt the font is good. Yet, it had much more space between each line of text in Snow Leopard than it should.

    Next, I took that Type 1 PS font, opened it in FontLab and saved it out as an OpenType PS font. Deactivated the Type 1 version and activated the new OpenType copy. The text instantly fixed itself in Quark.

    So the issue appears to be with some, but not all Type 1 PS fonts.
  • Kurt Lang Level 8 (36,660 points)
    Scratch that. I've narrowed the issue down to Quark (using version 8.1 here). I tried six different apps in Leopard and Snow Leopard. Notably, I duplicated what I did in Quark with InDesign CS4. Here's the results.

    1) Something I should have caught the first time. I had used OS X's built in Create PDF function for all PDF files, except InDesign CS4, which kept producing a hosed PDF file. Had to use the Acrobat 9 PDF printer for that. Anyway, since OS X automatically embeds fonts, and the PDF files displayed identically in 10.5 and 10.6, then that means the OS was rendering the fonts correctly.

    2) The InDesign CS4 document displayed identically in both Leopard and Snow Leopard. So it too was rendering the fonts correctly. As did the other apps I dropped various fonts into.

    Only Quark was having an issue between the two versions of OS X. I think that pretty much confirms that Quark is what needs to be fixed.
  • Steve Mouzon Level 2 (215 points)
    Not so, Kurt. I'm having the exact same problem with both iWeb and Keynote. It's not just Quark.
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