Q: MacBook Pro Battery 'Service Battery' after Snow Upgrade

Shigglyboo and Don,

IMHO, it is your posts that are wasting space and time, not Rod Hagen's, especially when you quote in full the post that you're complaining is too long.

Rod continues to provide decent, well-reasoned argument for a possible cause of this issue, his posts are read by those of us who are interested in understanding, and he writes in English.

I commend him for his interest and his efforts to help; you would do well to emulate him.

Regards,
Stephen

That's a good test Tim, but note the majority of people having the issues had that Sonny battery, and no one is saying that a new battery (not the Sonny ASMB012 one) is going to be killed by 10.6

My conclusion is, Mac Book Pro + Sonny Battery ASMB012 have issues with Snow Leopard, people can argue that battery had issues, but the true is, that hardware combination gives no problems at all with previous OS.

I believe Snow Leopard demands more power consume in general (is that actually environmentally friendly??) and that is why those Sonny batteries struggle and suffer all those symptoms under the new OS.

Again, whether is a battery or a OS issue, it's up to discussion, but the point is, our batteries could have live longer if we were not upgrade to Snow Leopard.

That is an interesting idea, jmgomegz, but my original MBP battery (supplied with the computer) was an SMP (just like Tim's new one) . It became problematic while I was still running Leopard, less than a month before SL was released, with only 150 cycles on the clock. The battery I replaced it with (supplied by Apple) is a Sony ASMB012 (like the ones of Tim's which died) . It has been running since the day SL was released, and shows no signs of deterioration.

So in my case, I suffered just the same sorts of people that people are complaining about here, using an SMP battery, while using Leopard, the "previous operating system" that you mention.

On the other hand I have had its replacement, a Sony battery, in the same computer under Snow Leopard since it first came out (more than 6 months ago now), and am not seeing any signs of problems despite the fact that it is a Sony and the OS is SL.

So in some ways Tim's experiences and my own mirror each other.

I should add that I HAVE seen a lot of people here with problems with the Sony batteries in these Macs, but they aren't limited to SL users. Many having trouble are using Leopard or even Tiger, still, in fact.

One thing I think you and I can certainly agree on is that the batteries in the pre-unibody MBPs generally have a poor record. As I've also said, I agree that there are some common situations (such as the use of Flash) where SL can be associated with an increase in the demands for power, and that this will "find out" a dying or defective battery before it might otherwise have been noted if the user generally only uses "low powered" applications. But such batteries would have also been "found out" by the use of any moderately CPU intensive application (rendering a video, for example) even under the older OS's anyway, just as mine was.

Cheers

Rod

Rod, it's been very difficult to diagnose anything as there are all sort of combinations, the only common link I can find is Mac Book Pro + ASMB012 batteries, to be honest, everything else, like your SMP battery, could be real defective batteries.

Again, I still believe, and I think you can't argue this, our old batteries would have live longer under 10.5.X, note I use my computer heavily, I'm not a casual user, but I do work with my laptop developing software, and lot of times making the most of my laptop resources. But only experienced the issue as soon as I upgraded to SL. And I always take care of batteries, leaving then drain at lest once a week...

I think it would be a relieve if Apple could step into and say anything, just anything, they now about the problems lot of people is having, and still they have never say a word, either to admit or deny the issue, and that doesn't look good, usually people avoid to talk about something they know they are wrong or it's their fault, human nature.

jmgomezg wrote:
I think it would be a relieve if Apple could step into and say anything, just anything, they now about the problems lot of people is having, and still they have never say a word, either to admit or deny the issue, and that doesn't look good, usually people avoid to talk about something they know they are wrong or it's their fault, human nature.

This is a user to user forum. Apple does not respond to anything that is reported here. If you want a response from Apple, you must contact Apple directly.

Retired Engineer, where have you read I am suggesting Apple to respond on this forum?
What I am saying is, if there is so many unhappy customers, it would be nice if they have a say, either to admit or deny, where they do that, I don't care, they have so many ways to do it.

Besides, lot of people have already reported to Apple directly. And most of us reporting the issue have pointed to this forum, so they know about the issue, and they know about the possible number of people having the issue.

Whether they decide to not take any action, again, to admit or deny the situation, it sounds like they are been cautious.

I think an official response to this issue would be grateful appreciate for the mass.

Apple being extra cautious about this issue has forced me to purchase a non-Apple laptop, and will be selling my MacBook Pro soon. After having a defective motherboard, defective battery, and now this battery issue with Snow Leopard, I have not choice into buying something not built by this company. They great products, don't get me wrong, but they have the worst customer service with how they have treated me (and probably others here as well). I will no longer be an Apple customer because of this, but will continue to follow this thread as it's truly embarassing that they haven't figured this problem out yet.

I've had this "service battery" message for several months now. No real noticeable change in performance. I was near an Apple Store recently and made an appointment and took it in. The Genius Bar guy tested it quickly and AppleCare paid for a new battery.

There is a graph displayed on the diagnostic screen during the battery test that tells the Apple employee if AppleCare or the customer pays for the new battery. I'm not sure what criteria determine this (I was just on the "AppleCare pays" side of the line).

The other weird thing is that "as part of this, I have to keep the battery". You can't keep the original battery as a backup. He even said that he didn't know of any reason why the old battery would cause injury to the system.

Anyway - no answers here; just one guy who was glad he bought AppleCare.

jmgomezg wrote:
...I always take care of batteries, leaving then drain at lest once a week...

jmgomezg, if you mean that you drain them to flat at least once a week this used to be a good strategy back in the days of NiCad batteries but it is not a good idea with modern Lithium batteries like the one in your MBP if you can avoid it.

Lithium batteries respond far better to partial discharges than to complete draining. Sure , you should calibrate them every month or so (by charging them up fully, allowing them to rest for a couple of hours, running them flat and then letting them rest again for another 5 hours, before fully charging them once again), but the rest of the time you should try to avoid complete discharges. A small amount of work running on the battery every day or so - discharging to somewhere between the 40 to 90 % level, will actually give you significantly better battery life than your current approach. These batteries need to be used regularly, but regular "full cycle" discharges are bad for them, not good.

For information about such things, and useful suggestions about how to maximise the life of Lithium batteries, see:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1764220
http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap10-page6.asp
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Cheers

Rod

Thanks Rod, appreciate the help, but I don't particularly agree what you are saying, what use of a laptop if we cannot use them unplugged at lest once a week then. For "leaving drain once a week" I could mean, once I week I can work outdoors for at least couple of hours.

I think I have hear here a few times people saying we shouldn't use our laptops plugged all the time, now we cannot leave them unplugged very often... well you see, that kind of information confuses people.

Most of us I am sure we already take care of our laptops as much as we can, let them drain, and calibrate, all sorts of things, and at the end of the day it won't make too much difference if we don't follow strictly guidelines.

I really thing this discussions has become useless, as we keep diverting the attention of the main issue, which is why our batteries died that soon after SL installation.

I have shared my point of view here before, trying to make people understand the problem, SL excessive consume makes Sonny batteries to die sooner. I have said before, whether is a OS issue o a battery issue it's up to discussion.
What we really like is Apple to acknowledge the issue, either to admit or deny, not necessary on this forum, but somehow.

I appreciate your effort, I am sure you mean well, but believe when I say you are not helping here. Don't get me wrong, but an official answer from Apple will probably do a better job.

jmgomezg wrote:
Thanks Rod, appreciate the help, but I don't particularly agree what you are saying, what use of a laptop if we cannot use them unplugged at lest once a week then. For "leaving drain once a week" I could mean, once I week I can work outdoors for at least couple of hours.

I think I have hear here a few times people saying we shouldn't use our laptops plugged all the time, now we cannot leave them unplugged very often... well you see, that kind of information confuses people.

It is just the way life is with Lithium batteries, jmgomezg. Like people, they thrive on regular light exercise! The positive side of Lithium batteries is that they are better at meeting high current demand while they are in good condition than other types of batteries like NiCad and NiMH, and that they don't suffer from "memory" effects. The negatives are that they have a comparatively short life and respond best to a use and charging pattern that isn't convenient for everyone. Only you can decide whether you want to modify your usage patterns to maximise the battery's life, or are prepared to accept a shorter life for the sake of the convenience of using it just as and when you want to, of course.

I really thing this discussions has become useless, as we keep diverting the attention of the main issue, which is why our batteries died that soon after SL installation.

The primary factor in this jmgomezg, is simply statistical probability. If you look through these forums you will find many, many examples of the batteries in these computers dying at about the same age when using earlier operating systems. The average life span of a lithium battery of the era when these computers were made is only a couple of years. It just so happens that many people have been installing SL on them at about the time when this point in their life has been reached.

Cheers

Rod

Not exactly true...since i bought a new battery and after a couple of weeks and less than 30 load cycles...it behaves exactly like the 2 years old battery i first got with my MBP pre unibody when i bought it in March 2008...
How is that?

Merak wrote:
Not exactly true...since i bought a new battery and after a couple of weeks and less than 30 load cycles...it behaves exactly like the 2 years old battery i first got with my MBP pre unibody when i bought it in March 2008...
How is that?

To quote from your earlier posts, Merak you bought a +"third-part-crappy-chinese battery..."+ for +"40€ shipping included"+.

Are you really surprised it isn't any good?

Cheers

Rod

Yep..i'm surprised since i had the same "luck" with an original Apple one i bought in a premium reseller here in my city for 109€ (discount price), which i will bring them back soon for a new one since it's faulty, isn't it the battery?
Exactly the same issues, healt dropping from 100 to 74 in 2 days and something like that. I gave my crappy one to a friend of mine, who is experiencing more than 4:45 hours on his santa rosa mbp wit 10.5.8.

Cheeeeeers