Q: MacBook Pro Battery 'Service Battery' after Snow Upgrade

CNET's article does not state anything other then to make sure you check your OS configuration, 32 or 64 and to try 3-4 troubleshooting steps. One which we did not mention is safe boot. More over the guy re-wrote this for CNET from a TUAW article here:
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/09/24/10-6-falsely-reports-service-battery-i-think-not/

If you read the user comments 90% were resolved with a new battery. Again you read what you want of an article, not the whole substance. And if you want to read something read this:
"Despite this problem existing for a number of MacBook owners, overall most people using Snow Leopard have not been affected."

rkovelman wrote:
Genius Bars and Apple Authorized Service Providers now have a special utility that actually reads the health information directly from the battery and can determine why the Operating System says the battery needs serviced. Most of the time the problem will fall into two categories: battery failure or depletion. This diagnostic tool is actually a game-changer in the world of Apple's battery warranty: batteries are no longer automatically covered through the first year. If the battery legitimately fails, they'll replace it free of charge. If you happen to deplete the battery within the first year, you'll pay for a new battery.

Such a shame that this app isn't publicly available, I'd love to get my hands on it.

yeah, from reading the article it's very clear that the issue is bad batteries, not the OS.

From the CNET article.

"This problem appears to be an issue with Snow Leopard's handling of the battery hardware, where the services that are supposed to detect battery problems are incorrectly reporting the battery status, and subsequently triggering the system to go into a precautionary sleep mode or claiming the battery is draining. This is especially supported by the fact that affected people who have downgraded back to Leopard either by reinstalling, restoring from backup, or even booting off the 10.5 Leopard DVD have not had the problem occur on the same hardware."

why is this one person attempting to dominate this thread with misinformation? The mods don't seem to care. My conclusion, you do work for Apple, or maybe you're subcontracted as a black hat damage control agent whose purpose is to frustrate and confuse users with problems.

Shigglyboo wrote:
yeah, from reading the article it's very clear that the issue is bad batteries, not the OS.

From the CNET article.

"This problem appears to be an issue with Snow Leopard's handling of the battery hardware, where the services that are supposed to detect battery problems are incorrectly reporting the battery status, and subsequently triggering the system to go into a precautionary sleep mode or claiming the battery is draining. This is especially supported by the fact that affected people who have downgraded back to Leopard either by reinstalling, restoring from backup, or even booting off the 10.5 Leopard DVD have not had the problem occur on the same hardware."

why is this one person attempting to dominate this thread with misinformation? The mods don't seem to care. My conclusion, you do work for Apple, or maybe you're subcontracted as a black hat damage control agent whose purpose is to frustrate and confuse users with problems.

Shigglyboo

The movie "Up in the air" might offer some insight on your question (hint: striving for that magic number). Remember, quantity and quality are mutually exclusive. Let's just wait until Apple responds or comes out with a fix.

Don

Given that the primary source quoted by the CNET author when justifying the article in the follow up comments is none other than this thread, Shigglyboo, it can hardly be used as independent confirmation of things that are said here!

Cheers

Rod

I am watching this thread because I have the same problem, somewhere I've posted my battery stats.

But my point here is to add:
If this is not a software problem, but a battery problem as alleged...

Why the heck don';t we get the warnings the battery is low? Why doesn't the battery turn red ? humm?

SeeJay wrote:
I am watching this thread because I have the same problem, somewhere I've posted my battery stats.

But my point here is to add:
If this is not a software problem, but a battery problem as alleged...

Why the heck don';t we get the warnings the battery is low? Why doesn't the battery turn red ? humm?

Because a warning message of the type you mention can only really reliably come up when a battery is operating normally, SeeJay.

Once a battery is on the way out its discharge curve becomes unpredictable, it ceases to be able to respond to short term current demands, and the computer can "crash' because of transient inadequate power. The battery still possesses an apparent voltage high enough to avoid the warnings, but transient current demands instantaneously push it over the edge.

There is no way to provide a timely warning of such things other than a general one about the condition of the battery generally. When the problem occurs it occurs in nanoseconds. Hence the introduction in Snow Leopard of more sophisticated processes such as the "Service battery" warning, which are based on more complex readings of the battery condition than voltage alone. Some people get annoyed because they have batteries that "get by" most of the time, but are in reality likely to momentarily fail in the fashion you describe at any time if the power demand is sufficient .

Personally I'd prefer to have a general warning that the battery is on the way out well beforehand, but I can understand that others might not be happy about receiving bad news when they scrape by more by luck than good management most of the time!

Your own battery stats (which you posted at http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=10833176#10833176 ) indicate that your battery is very much on its last legs. Most authorities on LithiumPolymer batteries recommend that they be replaced when their maximum capacity drops to 80% of the original. Below this 80% level these batteries can become unpredictable. Your own battery , according to the figures you posted ("Full charge capacity (mAh):1816"), is currently at about 30% of its original capacity. You can't expect "low battery warnings" or "hibernation" routines to operate reliably at anything like this level of deterioration. They all depend on the battery having a predictable discharge curve and sufficient transient capacity to meet instantaneous current demand.

Your answer (like many others in this thread) is very simple. You very obviously need a new battery.

Cheers

Rod

If its that when the battery behaves erratically when it has a health of somewhere under 80% then its easy to see why they go nuts on 10.6 instead of 10.5 as 10.6 uses more of the processor so having a faster power draw could make the battery go nuts earlier. Though I do not believe thats the case but if it is then there is a theory. **** one but a theory nonetheless.

What I do not get is why I have downgraded and am still having this battery issue? Are you all joking or serious when yall downgraded and said it fixed the issue. My battery is still screwed. I have done the cycling of the battery numerous times and it still isn't happy. My Mac experience started being pleasant and now its a complete and utter *****. I am a student and a musician/sound engineer. I also need to take my computer out to location recordings and to have a battery thats as suicidal as me isn't what I want at the moment. Isn't what I need at the moment either. All these posts are useless. They are not doing anything to resolve the issue rather than start arguments and make people more saddened by this problem. I am going to reset PRAM and nvRAM and will be back with details later.

Michael, if your battery is stuffed then you simply need a new battery.

Downgrading isn't really going to make it any more reliable (despite what some have suggested here) , even if it gives you a less dramatic sounding message about it! I'm sorry, but when you need a new battery you need a new battery.

Post your own info from System profiler and lets take a look at it.

I'm afraid resetting PRAM and NVRAM isn't likely to make much difference. Resetting the SMC might. So might making sure that you keep the battery warm if you are in the middle of the current northern hemisphere cold snap.

The thing that troubles me most about much of this thread is that many people like you are going to be expecting "instant fixes" from further OS updates or the like. Batteries aren't like that. If your battery was bad under Snow Leopard and is bad after "downgrading" to Leopard the answer is obvious for you too. You simply need a new battery I'm afraid.

Rod

count me among those suffering from this. both my macbook pro and my wife's macbook have experienced this, my MBP just a moment ago, quitting at 24% and displaying the "service battery" warning upon reboot when plugged in. the kicker is, this is a new battery, with only 24 cycles on it.

well, according to rkovlerman and Rod you just need another new battery. Nothing to see here. Just lots of bad batteries...

Seriously, I think all the posts from these two rude people should be removed, they have nothing constructive to offer aside from "buy new batteries".

Anybody else tired of seeing the same two people saying the same one thing? Where are the mods, oh, that's right, they're on the same team it seems, working AGAINST us, the end users.

Shigglyboo wrote:
well, according to rkovlerman and Rod you just need another new battery. Nothing to see here. Just lots of bad batteries...

what are the odds of two different laptops in the same household having exactly the same battery problems within a week of each other?

not bloody likely!

I'm with you, as are most of us here. Even the guys at CNET seem to think we're onto something here. But alas, there's these two guys on here that just won't quit beating their dead horse. I'm just getting really tired of my email box being filled with same misinformation about how it's so simple, we all need to buy new batteries. I'm also beyond frustrated with the lack of moderation on this board, if you call out the rude people for being rude, they remove your post for being rude...

I'm hoping to convince them to leave us alone. I'm preemptively asking them to just stop. Every day I see another user come here with the same battery problems, and every day these two disingenuous individuals tell the new folks to buy new batteries...

bscepter wrote:
what are the odds of two different laptops in the same household having exactly the same battery problems within a week of each other?

Well, if you believe in coincidences (that would be you Rod), the odds are even money. If you don't (that includes the majority of thinking individuals), the odds are a million to one.

In my case the Apple Genius chose to replace my battery at no charge, so not willing to look a gift horse in the mouth, I accepted the gift.

I cycled the battery once but won't operate my MBP on battery power again until after Apple has addressed the issue as I don't believe battery replacement is the answer, just a short-lived band-aid (as has been the case for several of the posters in this thread).

Shigglyboo,

On my reading of this, it you who are being personally abusive, or rude if you prefer, to these two guys. All they are doing is putting forward a perfectly plausible, carefully argued explanation, and giving some individual help and advice to those who don't seem to understand what their battery status information is telling them. Your being irritated by this explanation doesn't make it rude!

Between them, they have explained why Snow Leopard is less tolerant of bad or failing batteries, why such batteries might operate Leopard adequately, and why unpredictable shutdowns will occur when a battery is weak. I followed their explanations; I'm sure you could if you paid attention to them.

And on the topic of banging on with the same old tune, you might look at the glass house around you before throwing stones.

In case you're wondering, I don't work for Apple, I have no association with rkovlerman or Rod, and a new battery completely cured these symptoms on my MBP.

All the best,
Stephen