Q: MacBook Pro Battery 'Service Battery' after Snow Upgrade

Batteries have been specifically made for Apple for MBPs by at least three different companies, Johnny - Sony, SMP and "DP".

Most come from Sony and seem to figure prominently in the failure stats. I'd have to say , though , that the battery that failed , fairly young, in my own MBP 15, back when I was running Leopard, was made by SMP, and my own Sony has so far been fine, so maybe the dominance of Sony in failure stats, which I've noticed myself, is simply due to the fact that they make most of them!

I wonder , too, though, whether after the early Sony fiasco resulting in self-igniting L-Ion computer batteries and the recall of more than 10 million made by Sony for notebooks made by a variety of manufacturers (including Apple, Dell, IBM and Sony themselves) on safety grounds, they have tended to err on the side of caution and created less volatile, but under-performing replacements that might not last as long as they should.

There are any number of third party "alternatives" out there, but it is very hard to know if they are better or worse than the original equipment I'm afraid. One that may be worth looking at if you have lost confidence in the "originals" comes from the reputable supplier, OWC, and is provided to them by a long term 3rd party Apple product provider, Newer Technology - see http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20Technology/BAP15MBP58RS/

I hasten to add that I have no idea whether you will get a better run from them than from the original, but at least they aren't a "fly by night" maker or supplier like some of them. Newer's own claims about this battery are at http://www.newertech.com/products/macbprobatt15.php

(Edit. I see you mention "Fastmac" batteries, too. yes, I've heard some good things about them, and nothing too adverse, about them in the past as well)

Cheers

Rod

Message was edited by: Rod Hagen

Michael, thanks for the figures. I'm afraid it does look as if it is on the way out.

My first battery in my 2007 SantaRosa was an SMP , too, rather than a Sony. In my case it actually pretty died at somewhere around 150 cycles (I can't remember the exact number), in July 2009, about three weeks before I installed Snow Leopard when it started shutting down unpredictably. I still use it sometimes, but it is not dependable and, after about 170 or so cycles , actually has a little lower maximum capacity than your own. (I often have to use mine in a fashion that isn't particularly to batteries, with lots of "mains only" time, coupled with periods of intense "battery only" use)

I'm afraid, after 261 cycles, and presumably a couple of years use, you simply aren' that far off the norm when it comes to battery failure.

No, it is not just Sony batteries that fail, but they do make up a pretty hefty percentage of the reported problems.

Cheers

Rod

Rod Hagen wrote:
Most come from Sony and seem to figure prominently in the failure stats. I'd have to say , though , that the battery that failed , fairly young, in my own MBP 15, back when I was running Leopard, was made by SMP, and my own Sony has so far been fine, so maybe the dominance of Sony in failure stats, which I've noticed myself, is simply due to the fact that they make most of them!

The battery that came with my MBP died in less than a year, and under 100 cycles (I don't remember the exact # but I posted it previously). In fact, its almost a given that the battery originally shipped with the PowerBook/MacBook will die quickly. Every single battery that came with all 4 or my previous Apple Laptops died an early death. *Fingers crossed* that my unibody battery lasts more than a year.

Given my history with Apple branded batteries, given the reports of Apple branded batteries in this thread, buying a new Apple branded battery doesn't makes much sense, since they have such unfavorable reviews.

So my hope is that Apple fixes the bug that makes Snow Leopard more finicky about battery performance, and then I'll look to invest in a non-Apple branded battery.

My own experience (and that of the rest of my family) with batteries in Apple laptops has generally been pretty good, Johnny, though well short of perfect. I had a PB190 (NiMH from memory) battery that died after being exposed to extreme heat in Queensland, but it was already about two years old at the time. The battery in a PB1400 that I sold when it was about 4 years old was still going, albeit at a reduced performance level. My original PB12 battery lasted close to three years (in difficult conditions) before it became too unreliable for mainstream use. The only one of my own that didn't make the two year mark was the one in the MBP15. The 2006 to 2008 models do seem to be harder on batteries than other Mac notebooks to me.

Both of my daughters had iBooks (a G3 and a G4.). The G3 battery got a bit toey after a couple of years (shutting down unpredictably despite a "health" level of around 75%), but the G4 battery was still operating (without "uncontrolled" shutdowns but at about only 35% of original capacity) after more than 900 cycles! That particular daughter updated to a "late 2007" MB. She is clearly the "battery queen". Hers is still at above 90% capacity despite far more cycles than I have notched up on the Santa Rosa MBP mentioned above , now on its second battery, of the same era.

My wife has a "first generation" black MacBook from mid 2006. Its original battery died completely and suddenly when it was a few months old but the replacement (made under warranty) is still doing sterling service, touch wood, at a little over two years of age.

I guess the lesson out of all of that is that batteries themselves vary a fair amount, that how you treat them makes quite a big difference, too, and that with the right sort of usage pattern, if you are lucky, they can last a long time. From what I can see the "gentle , but regular usage" model is the one to go for. If I compare my own usage patterns with those of the "successful" daughter, and also my wife, I 'd say they both use about a 60/ 40 split of charger to battery use. Neither of them ever seem to run their computers completely flat from fully charged (apart from when I get them to "recalibrate" every two or three months). Neither of them, however, probably go so much as a day without a bit of "battery only" usage, either.

My own patterns are different. Work demands mean that I tend to oscillate between the two things that we know are not particularly good for battery life - very protracted stints as a surrogate desktop, coupled with times when I'm "in the field" when I charge 'em up overnight and then eke every last drop out of the battery during the day for several days in a row. It is pretty obvious from the above comments what works best when it comes to battery life! (Just as it is also obvious that you can be unlucky and have a new battery die suddenly at just about any time. This technology is still a long way from perfect, I'm afraid).

Wishing your unibody battery a long life and a happy one! The technology and the management system is quite different in these computers so I'd certainly be hoping you get well beyond the 12 month mark!

Cheers

Rod

Johnny Storm postings makes lots of sense (all of them...)

Im here just making sure that this thread keeps alive...

Oh yes! All those who said that buying a new battery fixed the "thing", please, let some days using your macbook pass over and post again...

New battery doesn't fix the bug (at least on pre-unibody MBP)

@Johnny Storm

I replaced my Sony battery with a True Power battery from fastmac a few weeks ago. But I have downgraded to Leopard 10.5.8 (you can see my 3 previous posts in this thread)

I'm going to let the battery 'settle' for a few more weeks before upgrading back to Snow Leopard, which will probably be at 10.6.3 at that point.

I'll share my battery performance when I upgrade - just in case your wondering, the True Power performance really does have a significant amount of extra power.

Rod Hagen wrote:
Wishing your unibody battery a long life and a happy one! The technology and the management system is quite different in these computers so I'd certainly be hoping you get well beyond the 12 month mark!

In the spirit of keeping this thread alive as well, I ordered a couple dozen third party replacement batteries for a creative group that are putting together a display and want to use MacBook Pro laptops (kiosk type deployment). They want to run wireless, without network, without power, etc.

The batteries seem to match the Apple spec, and I confirmed that the firm recycles old batteries so only the battery cells were replaced, the exterior/electronics of the batteries are original. These third party batteries come with a 1 year warranty (same as Apple). Scroll down for an example of what comes up in Apple System Profiler, for battery specs.

I'm not expecting anything spectacular...other than a more than 50% cost savings. I'm a firm believer in recycling (as is Apple Inc.). Ironic how this issue is panning out, that an opportunity like this comes along to tie us over until the issue is resolved.

The company is "Ultralast" and their webpage is http://www.ultralastgreen.com. For 1st Generation MacBook Pro laptops (MacBookPro1,1), the part number to look/ask for is ULA1175. A direct link to the battery is http://www.ultralastgreen.com/battery-match/?R=&page=details&model=ULA1175

Battery Information:

Model Information:
Manufacturer: PS
Device name: CL5711
Pack Lot Code: 0000
PCB Lot Code: 0000
Firmware Version: 0000
Hardware Revision: 0000
Cell Revision: 0000
Charge Information:
Charge remaining (mAh): 2829
Fully charged: No
Charging: Yes
Full charge capacity (mAh): 5161
Health Information:
Cycle count: 0
Condition: Normal
Battery Installed: Yes
Amperage (mA): 3061
Voltage (mV): 11878

Thanks,
Don

I was having the same problems right after upgrading to SL. Now I'm using my replaced battery for 4 months and finding no issues. It shows 95% of capacity with 35 cycles. The new battery vendor is Sony.
I used to blame SL but now I see that new battery really helps. So this could be a simple coincidence.

btw, my battery info is as follows:

Model Information:
Manufacturer: Sony
Device name: ASMB012
Pack Lot Code: 0001
PCB Lot Code: 0000
Firmware Version: 0110
Hardware Revision: 0500
Cell Revision: 0303
Charge Information:
Charge remaining (mAh): 1367
Fully charged: No
Charging: Yes
Full charge capacity (mAh): 4369
Health Information:
Cycle count: 26
Condition: Check Battery
Battery Installed: Yes
Amperage (mA): 3106
Voltage (mV): 12181

and now it's no longer saying "service battery."

my battery info now reads:

Manufacturer: Sony
Device name: ASMB012
Pack Lot Code: 0001
PCB Lot Code: 0000
Firmware Version: 0110
Hardware Revision: 0500
Cell Revision: 0303
Charge Information:
Charge remaining (mAh): 1169
Fully charged: No
Charging: No
Full charge capacity (mAh): 5088
Health Information:
Cycle count: 26
Condition: Normal
Battery Installed: Yes
Amperage (mA): -2479
Voltage (mV): 10084

update:

took it to the apple store, and the "genius" replaced it without question. very nice guy. great experience. (i'm guessing he's replaced more than a few of these). my new one (and it was a new one off the wall, not a refurb) isn't a sony. here are the stats:

Model Information:
Manufacturer: SMP
Device name: ASMB012
Pack Lot Code: 0002
PCB Lot Code: 0000
Firmware Version: 0110
Hardware Revision: 0500
Cell Revision: 0200
Charge Information:
Charge remaining (mAh): 2557
Fully charged: No
Charging: No
Full charge capacity (mAh): 5452
Health Information:
Cycle count: 1
Condition: Normal
Battery Installed: Yes
Amperage (mA): -2587
Voltage (mV): 11201

so... we'll see if we get the dreaded "service battery" warning any time soon. if so, then it's definitely either the laptop killing batteries or it's a software/firmware issue.

btw, this is the fourth battery i've had for this thing in 3.5 years.

Have you done the full calibration routine recently, bscepter?

(Adapted from http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1490 )
______________
...MacBook (all models), MacBook Pro (all models), MacBook Pro (17-inch) (all models) and MacBook Air
...

1) Plug in the power adapter and *fully charge your PowerBook's battery until the light ring or LED on the power adapter plug changes to green* and the onscreen meter in the menu bar indicates that the battery is fully charged.

2) *Allow the battery to rest in the fully charged state for at least two hours.* You may use your computer during this time as long as the adapter is plugged in.

3) *Disconnect the power adapter while the computer still on* and start running the computer off battery power. You may use your computer during this time. When your battery gets low, the low battery warning dialog appears on the screen. At this point, save your work. Continue to use your computer; when the battery gets very low, the computer will [ed. or rather, "should"] automatically go to sleep.

4)*Turn off the computer or allow it to sleep for five hours or more.*

5) Connect the power adapter and leave it connected *until the battery is fully charged again*.

__________________________

Some additional thoughts (based on my own experience and observations).

a) Some people experience situations where the computer shuts down prematurely, without experiencing the "low level" warning. If the battery is already "bad" it is often not possible to recalibrate properly in this situation. In other cases, however, simply repeating the *entire process*, including the extended "resting" period has returned the battery to normal operation. An SMC reset may also be worth undertaking in this situation.

b) avoid undertaking the recalibration process in a very cold (below 50ºF or 10ºC) environment. Normal room temperature is best. At low temperatures battery power levels artificially decline and are likely to result in an inaccurate 'setting" of the batteries "charge gauge". Low temperatures can also result in inaccurate capacity and charge readings in normal use, especially when the computer is first turned on.

c) if you are used to calibrating earlier Apple notebook batteries note that the process was changed substantially with the release of the Intel processor notebooks (and the very final model of alu Powerbooks). Don't use the process previously used for the alu Powerbooks or the iBooks. It will result in inaccurate settings.


d) while it is a good idea to calibrate the battery very early in its life, and then every couple of months thereafter, it will often take a brand new battery a few days to "settle in" and reach maximum power capacity. If you calibrate it immediately on purchase it may be a good idea to do so again a week or so later. Alternatively wait for a few days and let it run through three or four charge cycles first, and then calibrate.

e) while calibrating the battery every couple of months (or when issues arise) is important, don't overdo it. These batteries live longest when you avoid running through complete "fully charged to fully discharged" sequences too often. During normal operation try to keep them in the 30 or 40 to 100% range most of the time (but give them a bit of battery use every day or two as well if possible). Over frequent recalibration has the same effect on battery life as running charging the right up and then running them right down, of course. After the first couple of weeks (see "d" above), recalibrating every couple of months is about right for most users.

Cheers

Rod

Rod Hagen wrote:
Have you done the full calibration routine recently, bscepter?

i'm in the process right now.

i calibrated my old battery once a month. same with my wife's. still cr@pped out on me.

bscepter wrote:

Rod Hagen wrote:
Have you done the full calibration routine recently, bscepter?

i'm in the process right now.

i calibrated my old battery once a month. same with my wife's. still cr@pped out on me.

They'll do that eventually, of course, bscepter, regardless of how you look after them. I doubt that there are all that many of the original MBPs with a genuinely fully functional original battery on board these days! Seem to remember noticing in one of your other posts that your wife's MB is probably a couple of years old now, too.

Four batteries in three years is a lot, though. What sort of usage pattern do they usually have? Too much time on the charger alone, perhaps? Or lots of full charge / run til flat cycles?. I can be pretty hard on batteries myself, I know, because of the nature of my work, but mine last a bit longer than that generally!

Let's hope the new one solves the problem.

Cheers

Rod

well, I went the "genius" bar. Terrible experience overall. I tried to call because I had trouble finding the place, had to go through a furniture section of Macy's just to get inside the mall, I was under the impression they had an exterior storefront. The original directions I got from Apple sent me to a hotel across the street, so I tried to call the Apple store and you just get a recording that hangs up on you when you press 'zero', no way to get a human on the phone there.

So I went inside and met with my "genius", he ran the battery scanner thing and it says "replace battery". However, it said I have the full 85% health, of course I know this is false, because the health jumps back and forth from 40-80%. So according to this guy my battery is simply bad. Not defective, but bad, with only 70 cycles on it. I told him ran 3.5+ hours before installing Snow Leopard. He pretty much said "yeah, so?"

Just a few months ago my battery was fine. The only that changed was the Snow Leopard OS install. Battery only has 70 cycles on it. And they want me to buy another one? Another battery rated to last 300 cycles that only makes it to 70?

It was a complete waste of time, I made the guy promise me he'd forward the information higher, and told him I was very unhappy about my battery being killed by Snow Leopard. My advice to anybody with Leopard is to wait for this storm to blow over. If you upgrade, your battery life will be cut in half and Apple may or may not give you a new battery.

I spent 1.5 hours in traffic getting to their store and they just told me to spend more money, completely ignoring the fact that my battery is behaving like it's defective, not just bad. The bad battery in my PC doesn't magically go up to 80% health, it slowly got worse and worse and then just died.

For now the warning is gone and my battery life is back to 3 hours. Even during this period of 'no warning' and battery condition 'normal' his iPod says it's 'bad'. I'm confused, frustrated, disappointed, angry and more. Do batteries just die all at once? Aren't they supposed to lose a little charge with each cycle? And if my battery is defective shouldn't it be covered regardless or apple care or warranty?

Maybe I should try another location... don't know. But I didn't feel like the guy really cared about me one bit. And he said he'd never heard of this issue before. I told him about the 50+ page thread of people with the same problem & the CNET attention and he didn't really care. He had a very "whatever" attitude. No way this guy is a genius, I'd place his IQ well below average. Seriously, they need to be scoring way above average if they wanna call themselves genius's. I think the only requirement they have is a level of indifference and holier-than-thou attitude. Worst customer service experience in a long time, right up there with AT&T, oh and that makes sense! Once they get your money they could really care less it seems. You'd think a $2,000 investment would warrant at least acting like you matter.

So I guess I'm just going to sick with my half dead battery, with only 70 cycles on it, that lasted twice as long as it does now just a couple months ago.