Q: MacBook Pro Battery 'Service Battery' after Snow Upgrade

I'd try a new service centre in that case, Rob. It sounds to me as if you probably have a logicboard or SMC issue of some kind, rather than a system problem if the same thing occurs with a new battery.

If it was simply an OS issue fixable with an update don't you think millions of others would be experiencing it too? While the problems reported in this very long thread have been many and varied (and I certainly don't claim a perfect memory) I can't recall a single other instance in it where someone identified a fully charged battery producing an "X" in the menu bar as a "symptom".

Cheers

Rod

Have similar problem with battery less than (just) 1 year old. Crash and burn at 85 - 90 % charge. Cycle count at 23!

Bought laptop approx. April, 2007. Original battery 'died' after about 2 yrs, wasn't part of recall.

Yes, I mostly use my laptop w/pwr adapter.

Discovered problem several months ago (i.e., when battery was closer to 6 mo old) doing a calibration. I've never seen any indicator of battery issues. After most recent 'incident', battery button lit 4 lights!

To the best of my recollection, all my 'incidents' have occurred without warning - straight to shutdown.

So, anyone want to tell me Apple doesn't have a problem?

Battery Information (while recharging following most recent 'incident'):

Model Information:
Manufacturer: Sony
Device name: ASMB012
Pack Lot Code: 0001
PCB Lot Code: 0000
Firmware Version: 0110
Hardware Revision: 0500
Cell Revision: 0303
Charge Information:
Charge remaining (mAh): 4460
Fully charged: No
Charging: Yes
Full charge capacity (mAh): 4847
Health Information:
Cycle count: 23
Condition: Normal
Battery Installed: Yes
Amperage (mA): 865
Voltage (mV): 12489

Hello jregan, and welcome to the forums.

If your problem started occurring six months ago, then it predates the introduction of Snow Leopard.

Furthermore, if the computer is suddenly quitting at 85-90% charge you need to consider the possibility that other issues beyond the battery may be involved.

At 4460 maximum capacity, though, it is just under the recommended 80% of original maximum capacity when Lithium Polymer batteries should be replaced. Apple will generally replace purchased batteries that fall to less than 80% capacity with less than 300 cycles on the clock under warranty within twelve months of their purchase.

My suggestion would be that you take it to a dealer to get it properly tested.

Its performance decline is probably largely due, though, to the fact that it hasn't been used much. 23 cycles in twelve months suggests that it really hasn't been used enough for optimum longevity. see http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html for some tips on maximising battery life.

Can you remember what the computer was being used for when it has crashed like this in recent times?

Rod

Rod,

I'm not connecting my incidents to SL specifically. But I won't rule it out because I can't say my issues started 6 months ago, and my new battery did hold a charge until approximately the time I upgraded. Unfortunately, I don't have records to prove one way or the other.

I think you misunderstood 80%... Battery info below shows max capacity is 4927. Current capacity is4492. My battery charges to what my laptop says is 100%. It crashes and burns somewhere around 90%.

It is interesting that Cycle count is still 23. I just recharged after my first intentional crash and burn today. This one was intentional, too.

What was my laptop doing when it crashed? Nothing I wouldn't expect it to do while working without power. Wireless connection (if I'm running on battery, isn't wireless a reasonable design assumption?) , SL background processes, etc. Maybe a Safari connection (one tab); and several widgets on the dashboard. And Activity Monitor.

But the real problem is a crash and burn without warning at 85 - 90 percent battery power. I work in the industry, I understand the more apps running, the more disk access, the more power required, etc. My 'at rest' CPU utilization is 5 - 8 percent. Little or no disk activity.

In all due respect, your "peak power demand" argument is untenable. What responsible architect would design a laptop that couldn't handle a peak demand of, say, 92% when the battery was charged to only at 90%? One designing a 'luggable'?

Moving on, as I mentioned, the cycle count hasn't changed even though it recharged from approximately 90% to 100% in the last few hours. The cycle count is low either because the battery's defective or because other than recommended intentional regular (until it stopped properly discharging) discharge/recharge cycles, the laptop is powered on almost 24/7, has been for the entire time I've owned it. Like I said, I'm in the industry. I use my laptop daily - but I use it more as a portable/luggable than as a laptop.

I do plan on taking my machine in to see the Genius'. That won't happen for a few weeks. I'll be working (traveling). I'll let everyone know what they say.


Battery Information:

Model Information:
Manufacturer: Sony
Device name: ASMB012
Pack Lot Code: 0001
PCB Lot Code: 0000
Firmware Version: 0110
Hardware Revision: 0500
Cell Revision: 0303
Charge Information:
Charge remaining (mAh): 4492
Fully charged: No
Charging: Yes
Full charge capacity (mAh): 4927
Health Information:
Cycle count: 23
Condition: Normal
Battery Installed: Yes
Amperage (mA): 878
Voltage (mV): 12290

Whoops!, I did indeed misread your current capacity as your maximum capacity, jregan, and entered the wrong number in my calculator!. Your first quoted figure (4847mAh) in fact gives close to 87% of original capacity (based on 5600mAh notional original capacity) and your current figure is even a little higher.

I agree that you wouldn't expect a computer with a battery in your condition to crash as a result of excessive power demand. (the picture becomes cloudier when you get to 80% or below because batteries in this condition sometimes have a problem with only one or two cells, and while they can maintain the voltage necessary to maintain an appearance of full charge they often have trouble sustaining it in high demand situations). Most of the people reporting such crashes in this thread, though, have batteries with current maximum capacities far, far lower than yours.

I suspect your "low cycle count" is explained almost entirely through it remaining attached to a power cord most of the time. The process only counts a "cycle" when the equivalent of a full discharge to flat followed by a charge to full has occurred. In other words your computer would add together, for example, the sum of ten discharges like yours from 100% to 90% to 100% again (or any other fractional amounts) before it clicked up the counter by one more "cycle". There is accordingly nothing unusual in your battery reaching 100% without an additional "cycle" being added. The reality is that your latest charge / discharge only amounted to 1/10 of a cycle.

But why is your particular computer shutting down prematurely? Well, it IS possible that it is still the battery. A defective battery can have an apparent high capacity but a poor ability to meet transient demands. The only way to tell is to stress test it (which, I presume, is what Apple are actually doing with batteries at the AASPs and Genius Bars now with their new testing device mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

There are, of course, other possibilities, too. A defective power management system (I presume you have reset the SMC to make sure that isn't the problem), a defect in the battery circuitry, even a poor battery connection, could be responsible.

One thing that you can be pretty sure that it isn't when it shuts down like this, unless there is a specific entry in the system log, is the Operating System. OS shutdowns are controlled events. They leave a specific record in the system log. They occur in a way that minimises damage. They usually provide a warning. These sudden shutdowns, from all that I can see, are not "controlled" by the OS. They involve a situation where suddenly there is insufficient power to run the computer. If a battery is defective this may mean that if a new OS version, for example, uses more CPU power itself, or if other processes use more CPU power when run under it that the computer will shut down earlier than it might have under a different OS, but this will only occur if the current available can't meet the demand. It is not something that the OS itself directly controls or precipitates. Something like this, I suspect, is what is happening to those with clearly defective batteries (but would also occur under any earlier OS if they ran a CPU intensive application).

It will be interesting to hear how your own situation is diagnosed, when you take it in. If it is not simply a matter of needing to reset the SMC my bet is that it will turn out to be either the battery itself, or some other hardware based issue.

Cheers

Rod

Thanks Rod, your explanation it's perfect, nothing to object!

My only hope, at this point, is that could not be my case and a future update could solve my problem.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your answer!

The SMC reset trick worked for me: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964

Well..today i just received my third-part-crappy-chinese battery...
so far no warning of "service battery needed"...100% health and 4:30hrs of autonomy...i will keep u updated...

byeeee

Well I finely went back from Snow Leopard to Leopard, because of this battery issue. I’m returned to 2.45 hours and steady working time again. In Snow it was not even half of that!
It’s a bit frustrating I may say, and also very disappointing to see, that there is still no reaction from Apple! It’s not a pack of beans that we bought, for the price we payed for our MacbookPro’s etc, you can expect more service I think, and many with me!
Even, when maybe this issue is not related to the Snow Leopard download, it still would be nice the here, read or see some more explications on this subject. Cause only thing I her, see and read all the time is that we don’t use, and charges well our batteries! But my Macbook Pro is only one and a half years young, and the cycles counter is only on 96 cycles!! So, I rather would have some better explanations!

Thanks.

i have done a lot of house keeping on my machine as suggested by Rod. The makers of iDefrag has done well from this list, i also bought a copy.

My machine is fine. Battery is still dead (cut out at 87% power today) and I still have my Aperture issue. I read that this should be fixed with a library rebuild though.

I am planning to move my itunes archive offline - that should create some space! Though it will be annoying when I travel.

Oh and BTW, can someone at Apple fix this battery issue?

Cheers

A

Rod Hagen wrote:
Your idea of warning about installation for people with defective batteries because if they visit a flash site running Safari in 64 bit mode they may suffer from an unexpected shutdown is interesting, but where would this stop? Should Apple also be telling people with bad batteries not to use iMovie or iDVD under battery, even under Leopard or Tiger, because doing so is also likely to cause an unexpected shutdown because video rendering is processor intensive? Or Motion or Final Cut Pro or Logic? What about third party apps like WoW, or DVD ripping software, or even a particular version of Virex that hogs the processor, or even some old Canon printer drivers ? The same applies with them and the consequences are the same regardless of which OS is installed if the person concerned has a bad battery.

My idea is to warn people about installing a product that will detrimentally affect their battery life. I think its a fair warning. If you are required to replace your battery within a short period of time after updating, it doesn't seem like a fair bargain.

And to be fair, my warning about installation is about people who don't do anything other then turn the computer on. As I previously stated, simply drawing power, without action, is enough to cause my battery to shut down. Had I known this ahead of time, I wouldn't have upgraded, and if my time machine back up was leopard compatible, I would simply down grade, but I can't.

Cautioning people about the possible downside of an upgrade, is not unreasonable. When Apple fixes this problem, then I'll feel more confident to suggest it, in the meantime, I can present the people with my experience, the experience of others on this list and allow them to make up their own minds. Fair enough?

ajophoto wrote:
I am planning to move my itunes archive offline - that should create some space! Though it will be annoying when I travel.

The iPod Classic is a great solution to this problem. I have my iTunes library set up on an external drive, to save my main drive all the wear and tear iTunes causes. But like you, it means when I take the computer out, I don't have access to my music. That's where my 80GB iPod classic comes in. If you set the iPod to manually manage music, you can listen to music from the iPod through your computer, you can also use the iPod as a portable HD, which can come in handy if you use multiple computers.

Just a thought, not advocating the purchase of a iPod Classic, just wanted to share my experiences since they were similar to what you are intending to do.

Cheers,

-John

Merak wrote:
Well..today i just received my third-part-crappy-chinese battery...
so far no warning of "service battery needed"...100% health and 4:30hrs of autonomy...i will keep u updated...

Where did you get it from?

Cautioning people about the possible downside of an upgrade, is not unreasonable.

Not only is advising people not to upgrade a reasonable thing to do, but it's a mandate in my line of work. Until the root cause of this issue is identified and a fix provided, it is our responsibility to advise our clients.

I don't come to this forum much, except to do a quick search to see if any of the issues we're wrestling with have been reported in the past (and hopefully resolved). In my line of work it's a first step. That said, this forum is not the end all source for answers.

That said, I'm afraid some of the forum posters who regurgitate the "It's the battery" are waffling a bit. I guess it's all about reaching that "Top Users" milestone. Back to lurking...

Don

...but only worked for a day.