Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next 86 Replies Latest reply: Sep 19, 2009 5:49 AM by DGW222 Go to original post
  • James Schnoor Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)
    I have no problem with doing exactly what you did from Firefox or Safari.Therefore I don't see how you can claim "such obviously buggy software" when it's not happening to everyone. If was happening to everyone then MAYBE you could say that.

    Instead of making generalized statements maybe we should consider how to help you with this.

    Check for Firefox updates
    Try updating Java and such
    Do the normal clean cache files, cookies, history, etc...

    Let's see what we can do at that point to get you running.

    Peace,
    Iggy
  • James Schnoor Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)
    Try archive and install. Worked beautifully on my two MacBook Pros.

    Peace,
    Iggy
  • Apollo8 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    The "obviously buggy software" comment has to do with having a working laptop under Leopard, installing Snow Leopard and having a considerably less functional laptop. I have already updated Firefox, I have updated Flash and Java ( but why am I having to do this? because Snow Leopard was released buggy), Safari, of course, is brand new and can't be further updated. And I certainly see many other users having problems with Safari and Firefox. It's great that you don't have a problem but many people do. And if many people do, then there is a problem with the release. If we can point out all of Microsoft's mistakes we can do the same for Apple. And, yes, I'm working to get my computer running in a usable way again, but before I installed Snow Leopard it was working and I was getting work done.
  • Matthew Morgan Level 7 Level 7 (22,595 points)
    And if many people do, then there is a problem with the release.


    It's the update in combination with a users hardware setup, network and existing software the creates the problems.

    Just saying the update is buggy and pointing the finger at Apple is going to solve no ones problem.

    Matt
  • James Schnoor Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)
    You are having to update that software because the software (not SL) was not working with 10.6. Almost anytime there is an update to an OS some software will have to be updated to work with it.

    Saying that it is buggy because you have to update your software is like saying that, it's the old medicines fault that it doesn't cure a new disease.

    I just make it a practice to update wherever possible the software I use when an update to the OS comes out.

    I'm glad that you got those things updated and things are going better for you. Hang in there.

    Peace,
    Iggy
  • Eric Westby Level 4 Level 4 (1,800 points)
    Apollo8 wrote:
    It's great that you don't have a problem but many people do. And if many people do, then there is a problem with the release.


    No, no, no: this is the crudest sort of logical fallacy! You'd need a statistically significant sample of all Snow Leopard users to be able to make this statement remotely valid.

    What you are seeing here is anecdotal reports of problems in a technical support forum. Of course the percentage of problem reports is going to seem high. In addition, casual users don't always realize that OS upgrades add and/or change thousands upon thousands of files on a hard drive, and it is, sadly, not uncommon for some of these files to become corrupted. (Hard drives are finicky, analog beasts.) That can lead to problems with your specific installation that are not reproducible in the wider world.

    The best way to sniff out if the problems are specific to you is to create a new user on your system and see if the same problem manifests. If not, it's safe to say the problem is a corrupted file of some sort in your old user account.
  • Apollo8 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I'm pointing the finger at Apple, because Apple made the OS, the hardware, the standards all the apps use and the installer for SL. All my upgrades from Apple since 1991 worked far more smoothly, and I gave them full credit for doing it right. Apple is supposed to test the heck out of these exact things and fix major problems before the release....and that's why I am confortable pointing the finger at Apple. Furthermore, the only way I can see Apple improving the process, and choosing to release the update when it's ready, is to make it clear publicly that there is a problem. The two problems I am trying to solve

    1) Get my Macbook as functional as it was last week

    2) Get Apple to care more about the customers than the short term stock price
  • Apollo8 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    James, everything is updated AND the software is still buggy. That would be my point. Safari is made by Apple and was part of the update. There's a very Microsofty feel about this update.
  • SdeS Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Hmnnn, well, you've certainly got a valid point regarding third party software not working with a new OS, it's always going to be tricky for them to seccond guess what's comming.

    ....but when it is the latest version of Apple's own software that is doing the crashing in cobination with the latest Apple OS, on a hardware platform that is Apple's with no other hardware connected, (other than an Apple time capsule not connected to a network) thenI I assume as a user the advice is I should
    change my hardware for a newer version?
  • Apollo8 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Yes Eric as to the logical fallacy, however, many case studies in concert begin to imply a certain statistical significance. No, I am not going spending a year gathering data for a study. I'm inferring, from a good deal of comments about SL on the innertubes, that there are a good deal of issues with this release. History will likely show my inference to be correct in this instance. It certainly did with MobileMe.
  • Matthew Morgan Level 7 Level 7 (22,595 points)
    There's a very Microsofty feel about this update.


    Some variation on that comment has been made about each and every update of OS X.

    It's to the point, I don't know what it means anymore.

    When exactly in Apple's past were the days of OS updates where _no one_ encountered any problems?

    Matt
  • James Schnoor Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)
    They made the standards. That is correct. But some standards (code) changes with updates to the OS. The "new" standards are then given to the developers (Mozilla, Adobe, etc...) and THEY then have to update their software to make sure it is working with the new OS. They know these things way in advance. That's why they were so quick on having the update out there for you today. If a developer doesn't want to change their software to take advantage of the new features and changes in the OS that is their prerogative but, to blame Apple or Microsoft for something that isn't their fault is not productive or fair to the OS developer.

    It's like blaming Apple or Microsoft for HP not updating it's printer drivers to work with SL or Windows 7.

    Peace,
    Iggy
  • James Schnoor Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)
    There can be MANY reasons for that. My way of doing an "upgrade" may be different than yours. My devices I have connected may be different. I can tell you how I do ALL Mac OS upgrades and see if it helps you out any. I've done it this way from day one and I've been (I guess) one of the lucky ones, as I've never had an issue when I've upgraded.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --
    I have installed 10.6 on two MacBook Pro's and a Mac Mini without any issue what so ever. Here's how I do it.

    Backup anything you want to keep
    Unplug any USB/Firewire devices (except keyboard and mouse)
    Boot from SL CD
    Run Disk Utility
    Verify/Repair HDD
    Verify/Repair Permissions
    Install OS X 10.6

    I've used this process for all Mac OS X installs and I have NEVER had an issue with ANY of them. You might try this and see if it makes a difference. It should (but won't) go without saying that you should backup anything that you want to keep. I've never lost any information doing an OS X update, but you want to be sure.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Let me know if that helps at all. I'm really actually trying to help you if I can. You are welcome to email me if want. I'll help however I can Bud!

    Peace,
    Iggy
  • Eric Westby Level 4 Level 4 (1,800 points)
    A thoughtful and nuanced reply. But as far as I can tell, there's no groundswell of commentary online that SL is buggy. There are merely isolated individuals experiencing problems with specific installations and/or third-party programs. None of the troubleshooting sites I frequent (Macintouch, Macfixit, Xlr8yourmac, etc., the usual suspects) has uncovered a pattern to the issues or a prevalence that would indicate widespread, catastrophic problems.

    You're right about the first release of MobileMe, though, which simply failed to work for most users.
  • Apollo8 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    James,

    It's not like blaming Apple or Microsoft for HP not updating it's printer drivers to work with SL or Windows 7; what it's like is blaming Apple for not making sure Apple's Safari ( not a 3rd party, since apples are apples ) works properly with Apple hardware that's less than a year old. Apple's mistakes are Apple's fault. And, once more, with all the updates, Safari is still crashing the same way.

    I know at some point Apple will fix this...because it's a bug. Since browsers are important these days I expect Apple to carefully check them, and their compatibility with Java and Flash and incorporate that properly into the update. That is not an unreasonable expectation.