How will we get our networking issues with SL resolved?

Question

Level 1

40 points

How will we get our networking issues with SL resolved?

Apple delivers fixes/solutions thru "software updates" available to us thru internet. For many of us who are unable to maintain a link to the internet, I hope Apple will come up with an additional way of providing the patch.

The intent of creating this new thread is to draw the attention of Apple tech support. This is NOT a newbie issue, it is NOT an "operator error". When the Leopard boot works fine on the same mac and a "clean install" of SL doesn't, it IS a REAL issue.

Since we are looking at this from the outside having no access to the source code or the architecture of the OS, it can seem very strange why it works on one mac and not on the other, doesn't work initially, but starts working with simple work-arounds. But that is the problem of looking at it from the outside like we, the customers are doing. But, I am not aware of a precedence where Apple has acknowledges the issues and then promised to fix the issue. All bug reports from the customers are treated with "deathly silence" until a software update comes up - and then it may not talk about your specific issue at all!

Hope Apple will do a better job this time! And pigs will fly...

2xMac Mini 2Ghz(old+new); iPhone 3G 16GB; Apple TV 40GB, Mac OS X (10.5.8), 750GBSeagateFreeagentProFirewire4data; 1TB USB 4Backups; iLife09

Posted on Sep 3, 2009 12:00 AM

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Answer 1

Sep 3, 2009 12:34 AM in response to new2appletv

new2appletv,

First, you are not likely to "catch the attention" of Apple Tech Support by posting here. This is a user-to-user forum, and we have no additional connection to Apple; no more so than you.

Apple does not develop the drivers for printers. The manufacturers of those printers do. Or not. Apple does distribute them through its Software Update, but this is a convenience for both the developer and for the user. Nothing more, nothing less.

They are not installed by default in Snow Leopard, so you may have missed them. However, the latest Snow Leopard compatible print drivers from the manufacturers are available as an optional install on the Snow Leopard DVD, and by "latest," I mean the latest at the time that Snow Leopard was solidified. At all times, the most recent will be available through Software Update. As drivers are updated (again, by the manufacturers), they will become available.

How else would you have Apple deliver these drivers to you? The only other viable option is for you to find them on the manufacturer's website, but this also requires an internet connection.

The reality is that, for those without access to the internet, it might be unwise to upgrade to a just-released operating system for which device manufacturers may not have released compatible drivers. In time- and probably in short order- all this will come together, and the upgrade will be less fraught with potential incompatibilities or loss of function.

Scott

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Answer 2

new2appletv Author

Level 1

40 points

Sep 3, 2009 6:44 AM in response to Scott Radloff

Hi Scott,

I am not referring to any 3rd party printer driver. In fact, I am not referring to ANY printer driver. My problem is that my mac mini cannot access internet in an usable way. And hence the question, how can I get a patch when Apple releases one.

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Answer 3

kevkline

Level 1

4 points

Sep 3, 2009 8:04 AM in response to new2appletv

I briefly wondered the same thing. What about people that can't stay connected to the internet long enough to download any updates?

I am able to maintain a connection for what I think is long enough to download any updates - about 15 minutes.

My Mac drops all network connections about every 15 minutes telling me "You are not connected to the internet". Which is funny when I can go on the internet on my Vista instance running through VMWare which is just NAT'd connection through the same ethernet port. I have found that keeping my airport off altogether and using only wired makes the connection last a little longer. To resolve when it does die, I simply have to make a change. Any change. Turn airport on/off. Renew DHCP, pick a different location from the network preferences. Doesn't matter which. Just change "something" and it wakes back up for awhile and then goes back to sleep. I am tempted to just change my startup disk to my Boot Camp and keep running Vista until it's fixed. I can't keep getting kicked out of my databases and firewall connections and stay productive at work.

Now we know why it was only $29. Ever heard of "you get what you pay for"? Very very very disappointed. Good thing they released it early, eh?

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Answer 4

Sep 3, 2009 8:40 AM in response to new2appletv

new2appletv,

I don't know why I thought you were referring to Software Update's ability to distribute print drivers. You certainly didn't mention printing in your original post.

But, now that you mention your actual problem, I can tell you that this is something specific to you. Network connections are certainly not problematic in Snow Leopard as a whole. You probably just have a bad installation.

Scott

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Answer 5

Sep 3, 2009 8:41 AM in response to new2appletv

Quick question. Are you connecting through a router? Have you tried plugging directly into your modem? I ask this because I've installed SL on two MacBook Pros and a Mac Mini and I'm having no problems what so ever (wireless or wired). Maybe something with your router that needs updating. Plugging directly into the modem may answer that for you. One other thing to try is turn the IPv6 setting to off.

Just some thoughts.

Peace,
Iggy

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Answer 6

kevkline

Level 1

4 points

Sep 3, 2009 9:21 AM in response to James Schnoor

Just for some more background, I am the system/network administrator for a large corporation. It is not a network issue. I have only installed SL on two machines so far. Mine and one other. I am reluctant to upgrade any more until mine is fixed. The other one I upgraded I did a clean install, mine I did an upgrade. The clean install works fine so far. During my install, there was no indication that anything went awry. Simple, clean upgrade. I also thought about the IPv6 which was the first thing I disabled.

Message was edited by: kevkline

Message was edited by: kevkline

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Answer 7

Sep 3, 2009 9:25 AM in response to Scott Radloff

Are you kidding, Scott? Take a look at some of the posts in this forum. Snow Leopard absolutely has networking issues and it certainly isn't attributed to bad installations or user error.

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Answer 8

Sep 3, 2009 9:29 AM in response to kevkline

I understand where you are coming from. I worked for a large enterprise for quite awhile as well as a DEC/Compaq/HP for many years.

OK. Another question then. Have you tried to manually set up the ethernet on the Mac? I've found that does at times help (just like it sometimes helps with Windows). It may just be something with the way the Mac(s) are getting the auto information from the network. If that helps then it may be easier to determine where the failure is happening.

Don't you just love intermittent issue. Such a joy to troubleshoot. 🙂

Peace,
Iggy

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Answer 9

kevkline

Level 1

4 points

Sep 3, 2009 10:21 AM in response to James Schnoor

Well, I have been able to find the cause of the problem: DNS. When my connection "died" this time, I entered the IP address for Google and viola - it worked. So, the issue is definitely with DNS. However, I am NOT using any manual DNS entries. All DNS records are set through DHCP. So, now I know what is causing the problem, just need Apple to fix it....

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Answer 10

Sep 3, 2009 10:28 AM in response to new2appletv

I have had intermittent working wireless on my MacBook Pro. At home with a Linksys router I had no problems, but at the school I work for I would full bars from the airport base station, but would not receive an IP address and manual assignment didn't work either. I was seeing a lot of Recv Errors in Network Utility for the Airport interface. I changed the wireless security on the base station from WPA/WPA2 Personal to only WPA2 Personal and my connection issues seem to have gone away. This fix obviously won't work for people that can't change the wireless access point they use, but maybe it will help some people.

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Answer 11

Sep 3, 2009 10:34 AM in response to kevkline

Kev,

I forgot about that. I'm using the OpenDNS servers: 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220. They would probably work fine for you if you want to try them. I put them in for a completely different reason (slow internet in 10.5) and they helped. Just a thought.

Glad to see you got it figured out. Nice!

Peace,
Iggy

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Answer 12

new2appletv Author

Level 1

40 points

Sep 3, 2009 10:47 AM in response to Michael Mclaughlin2

Thanks for the large number of comments telling your individual experiences. It makes me feel better that I am not the only one in the woods!

Here is an update on my story...

Called Apple Tech Support at 7AM. The call lasted 90 minutes. Went thru three levels of specialists and the final decision was to grab a detailed dump of my configuration so that Engineering can review the info. Very nice folks in Tech Support - feel sorry for them, but such issues justify their jobs.

Tech Support: He said that about 20 of their own tech support iMacs had IP address issue which got resolved by creating a new network location (by now everyone knows about this work around).

Specialist #1: Tried changing the channels on my router to ensure interference was not the issue (she was clutching at straws with this approach as if that was the case, I would face the same problem with Leopard booting from my cloned drive). But, when known solutions don't exist, one has to try all the options.

Specialist #2: He was much more methodical. Since I was not able to get to the configuration of my AEBS thru Airport Utility (error -6722), he asked me to hold the "option" key down and then click on the Airport icon. You will see more info about the connection with this approach. It showed a decent RSSI (I think this is some kind of signal quality indicator) of -73. But, the Transmit Rate was just "1". We booted the system from the SL Installation Disk and the Transmit Rate jumped to 24. When the transmit rate is just "1", it is obvious that the connection will be extremely slow. I didn't get the chance to reboot from Leopard to see what the Transmit rate was thru this method. I know that from Airport Utility, the rate used to be 48 or 54 (this is a 2008 model G class mac mini). He sent me an utility by email to capture detailed config info and he was going to take it to Engineering for some clues. He gave me his direct line and promised to get back to me in 3-5 days time. As I said before, this needs to be looked into from the inside - the Airport driver and its interaction with the OS layers.

So, until then I appreciate any other debugging steps to tease out the problem. I will be happy to try them as I now have one partition with "Upgraded SL", one with "Clean install SL" and then the "Cloned Leopard". I am open to many experiments to resolve this issue.

My request to the senior posters on this forum is to desist commenting on the lines of "there is no issue with wireless with SL". You should know better to come up with a blanket support of that kind. Please stop sounding like Baghdad Bob. I have a lot of respect for the senior posters in this forum as they have helped me many times without expecting anything in return - genuine altruism at work. But, Apple doesn't need cheer leading.

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Answer 13

The hatter

Level 9

60,980 points

Sep 3, 2009 11:18 AM in response to new2appletv

I've heard of people having to get a CD of new drivers (getting hard when combo updates exceed CD's capacity) or school, business, cafe where there is a good connection.

Tiger 10.4.0 had serious LAN issues that prevented large networks from functioning as I recall, almost exactly 4 yrs ago, and hoped to have a fix in by 10.4.2. They did come out with a 10.4.3 DVD that worked and of course didn't leave customers 'out in the cold.'

Does sound like you have all the help and support you need.

I use to lose my network and got tired of having to reset router and ADSL each when it happened, almost every morning after being online for an hour or two, totally out of nowhere - at first it seemed to affect only Mac but lately even Windows 7. Firmware upates and new router seemed to help but in the end I replaced my 5 yr old modem and so far so good. It has wireless but why when my systems are 3-4 ft away and wired is fine.

I've never configured for wireless, but some manuals suggested first setting up and configuring router etc with a wired connection first, then use wireless setup utility.

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Answer 14

new2appletv Author

Level 1

40 points

Sep 3, 2009 11:26 AM in response to The hatter

Yes, setting up wireless routers used to require me to connect them wired first - at least that's how it was with Linksys and Netgear routers that I used. But, after replacing them with Apple routers, it is a breeze setting up as the Airport utility can discover them and let you configure them over the wireless itself. And this morning, while on the call with tech support, I ran a 50ft cable from the router to the mac mini to establish a connection to download the utility he had emailed to me.

And thanks for looking in. With that many number of posts, you definitely must have battle scars and have earned your stripes.

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Answer 15

Sep 3, 2009 12:54 PM in response to kevkline

kevkline,

I do have one suggestion that comes to mind. Look in /Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/. Drag all of the files there to your trash, then restart (you'll have to authenticate in order to do this, but that's OK).

It might fix your issues, or it might not. You may lose some settings in the process, and have to set up your connections again. If this provides some relief, it will be worth the trouble. If not, you can move the re-created files to a temporary folder, then drag the originals back in and restart again.

Scott

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