Dropping Wi FI Signal

FreelanceForHire wrote:
After 18 years in technology marketing for engineering-driven companies, I can attest to this being the answer given by engineering every single time.

But it was, is, and remains absolutely the wrong answer for any company that wants to gain or keep marketshare and customers. Just because we uncovered someone else's bug doesn't mean it's not a problem for us, and our product.

Standards exist for a reason, and Apple's not going to change their code to work around random third party product issues.

Accept the answer or not - it's very likely not happening unless it's a bug in Apple's code.

Przemek55 wrote:
I'm not that sort of person who would moan without making an effort himself to try and fix a problem. However, Mr. Kucharski's claim that Apple holds no responsibility for other's "broken software" is just ludicrous. What broken software? Does it mean that Leopard was working fine because Apple made a mistake and issued it with a driver which accidentally worked with my router before??? And now, they have rectified the 'problem' and it is not working!!!

I explained things above and how a perfectly legal change in Apple's software could result in router issues.

The bottom line is:

1) If it's a router firmware problem, a router firmware update will fix it.

2) If it's a bug in Apple's software, they'll fix it.

3) If it's a router firmware problem, Apple very likely will not fix it.

I apologize deeply, as I realize that none of the choices above fixes your connectivity issues right now.

I'm merely explaining how a software update can be both not a bug on Apple's fault and the source of the problem, and historically Apple has not rewritten their code to work around issues that are correctly solved by third party vendors.

FWIW, 802.11n adds another level of uncertainty, as all currently available 802.11n drivers are interpretations of a "draft" standard, and as such can vary considerably.

http://www.planex.net/product/wireless/gw-usmini2n.htm

Explain why that USB WIFI dongle I had to purchase in order to stay connected doesn't drop the connection and Airport does.

I gave a possible explanation above; reread the section on "2 + 3" vs. "3 + 2."

FreelanceForHire wrote:

William Kucharski wrote:

Say there is a bug where, when asked to add "2 + 3" the router's firmware returns "5" but when asked to add "3 + 2" it returns 6.

If Windows, Linux and perhaps Leopard all add "2 + 3" but Snow Leopard adds "3 + 2," Apple does not have the responsibility to nor should they rewrite their drivers to work around the broken firmware.

After 18 years in technology marketing for engineering-driven companies, I can attest to this being the answer given by engineering every single time.

But it was, is, and remains absolutely the wrong answer for any company that wants to gain or keep marketshare and customers. Just because we uncovered someone else's bug doesn't mean it's not a problem for us, and our product.

There are several large sites on the web discussing this problem. Some people are saying it's a bug in how 10.6 and maybe 10.5.8 handle DNS protocol.
Yet here at this Apple site there is a lot of trying to sweep it all under the rug. In another related thread here someone told a poster that their was no known connection problem.

This is how Microsoft ended up in the place they did with vista-continually denying problems. I realize that there may be valid technical explanations for what's happening but (as in my own experience) when there are several other computers using a network and the only machine(s) constantly losing connection are Apple laptops running 10.6 then I think most reasonable people are not going to conclude the problem is with the network (which is working for all these other computers) nor with the computers that are staying connected.

Apple should wake up, stop having people here deny customer's real world experience with connection issues before it becomes the latest internet horror story.

William Kucharski wrote:
I gave a possible explanation above; reread the section on "2 + 3" vs. "3 + 2."

Which tells me it's an Airport driver issue.
I would expect a copout like that from Microsoft, not Apple.
Apple needs to fix this before it ends up embroiled in a class-action lawsuit over it.
The claim of "It Just Works" is now fraudulent by definition.

If you refuse to listen to logic and believe that third parties aren't responsible for fixing their broken products, perhaps you'd be happier with a Windows PC, as there's nothing more that I can do for you here.

I'm giving a completely valid (and frankly all too common) reason why a software change causes one machine to have problems "when all my other machines work" and the truth that it's not Apple's responsibility to rewrite their code to work around other vendors' firmware bugs.

Certainly Apple is responsible for fixing their own bugs, and frankly we don't know why some of you are having issues when the vast majority of Snow Leopard users have none.

I'm just explaining why saying that Apple's code is "broken" may not necessarily be true, and if the issues are caused by router firmware issues, you may be waiting a long time for a fix from Apple.

If reverting to Leopard fixes your problem(s), by all means do so; you don't have to run the latest and greatest version of any operating system or application unless there's a feature you just have to have.

A 1955 automobile will get you where you want to go just as nicely as a 2009 vehicle (and depending on the new vehicle, very likely in much more style. ;-))

But if you require say ABS or air bags - then and only then do you have to upgrade.

It funny to hear someone talk about logic when the defense is that there's nothing wrong with a Apple product that loses the same network other computers have no problem with, but that's all ok everyone can decide what makes the most sense for them.

I wanted to let people know that there is a website author claiming a sort of fix here: http://osxdaily.com/2009/09/01/how-i-fixed-my-dropping-wireless-airport-connecti on-problem-in-snow-leopard/
So while you're waiting for Apple to come out from hiding on this issue you can try the fix at the above link.

That fix didn't work for me-I replaced my router at home but I just can't get places like wifi cafes, where other computers aren't having problems, to go along with that solution.

So really I will use William's answer. I'm using an older HP laptop now. I will sell the MBP-which is untrustworthy and buy a PC laptop with the money I get for the MBP.

Before buying a PC be sure to read the same sad story on the TechNet forum. I spent a year with a viao listening to the radio to keep a data stream going and avoid otherwise constant disconnections.

Sure it is a problem with the router and the computer playing leapfrog with the code for the new wireless n standard. Now it is official perhaps we can get some coherent software between the two of them.

Can they hear me?

William Kucharski wrote:

If reverting to Leopard fixes your problem(s), by all means do so; you don't have to run the latest and greatest version of any operating system or application unless there's a feature you just have to have.

For those of us who bought new MBPs pre-loaded with SL because that's the only way Apple will sell them, this argument is illogical.

I don't dispute the logic of why there's a problem, or that it's technically not a problem with Apple's code.

But I dispute the belief that it's not Apple's problem. It affects user satisfaction with and the reputation of Apple's product. That makes it Apple's problem.

I don't care if they write a patch, or bully & bribe third-party vendors into issuing firmware patches. Do something. They cannot and should not simply shrug and point fingers. That's what Microsoft did for decades, and it's why Apple's gained market share.

I tend to agree with those that feel the network is to blame. Considering those that have both WIFI and ethernet issues. The common hardware in both is LAN,Computer,OS, software. I myself found that Snow Leopard could be to blame, yet after hooking up a hard wired router a RP614 from Netgear I realized that the SL computers had healed from their network freeze ups and sluggishness. It may be that certain routers for whatever reason are not connecting well with SL. I myself went further a bought a Linksys WRT160N to replace a Belkin which I returned. The Linksys has not caused my LAN to slow with both SL computers I have. This could explain why not everyone has this issues. It could also mean certain routers and firmware are more capable of dealing with SL issues?

FreelanceForHire wrote:
I don't care if they write a patch, or bully & bribe third-party vendors into issuing firmware patches. Do something. They cannot and should not simply shrug and point fingers. That's what Microsoft did for decades, and it's why Apple's gained market share.

Apple does notify third party vendors of firmware issues they find.

However whether those vendors bother to fix those issues is entirely out of Apple's hands.

Apple doesn't "do nothing" but they're not going to code around others' errors, either, especially when their products work properly with the majority of hardware out there.

John Scott1 wrote:
I tend to agree with those that feel the network is to blame. Considering those that have both WIFI and ethernet issues. The common hardware in both is LAN,Computer,OS, software. I myself found that Snow Leopard could be to blame, yet after hooking up a hard wired router a RP614 from Netgear I realized that the SL computers had healed from their network freeze ups and sluggishness. It may be that certain routers for whatever reason are not connecting well with SL. I myself went further a bought a Linksys WRT160N to replace a Belkin which I returned. The Linksys has not caused my LAN to slow with both SL computers I have. This could explain why not everyone has this issues. It could also mean certain routers and firmware are more capable of dealing with SL issues?
John Scott1 wrote:

I did exactly the same and replaced my old router with Linksys WRT160N. Unfortunately, before and after the upgrade of the firmware I have the same problems. Funny thing is that once I change the settings in the router it seems to work ok for an hour. Then the problems start. As I've mentioned before, I run 4 computers on the network and only SL keeps losing the signal.

Message was edited by: Przemek55

To avoid hardware conflict I changed my Linksys router to Airport Express. I also verified my Macbook antena connections with no sign of fretting on the 2 cable antenas.
Under this new configuration, my Macbook with SL is still the only one experiencing drops. Two other machines (Dell Laptop and Desk top) running on Windows (Vista and XP) are happy as pigs in sh..
I will therefore wait for an upcomming SL update to fix the issue.

milsabord wrote:
To avoid hardware conflict I changed my Linksys router to Airport Express. I also verified my Macbook antena connections with no sign of fretting on the 2 cable antenas.
Under this new configuration, my Macbook with SL is still the only one experiencing drops. Two other machines (Dell Laptop and Desk top) running on Windows (Vista and XP) are happy as pigs in sh..
I will therefore wait for an upcomming SL update to fix the issue.

Please provide an explanation of why someone using Apples own router is still having issues! I am starting to seriously think about getting a new router but if their own equipment can't even work with their computers then what hope does 3rd party products have. I'm not trying to be an *** but I would really like some insight into milsabord's issue. Perhaps William has something on this?

I posted a comment yesterday; stating, among other things, I partitioned my hard drive and installed Leopard on it so I'll let you all know how that works. So far it is dropping connection much less often while using Snow Leopard. I hope when I get to school tomorrow I will see that I can finally connect to their network again. And by the way, you can't see that post of mine from yesterday because Apple removed it. According to them my post was removed for the following: Discussion of Apple Policies, Procedures or Decisions (basically they are mad cause I said their "specialists" basically lied to me), Off-topic or non-technical posts (now really? cause most of these posts are "off-topic" just one person defending Apple to the end, and others just frustrated and trying to get answers), and finally Non-constructive rants or complaints (again really? I hop I wasn't the only one who got posts deleted for this, because I was surely not the only one "ranting"). On a more personal note, and yes another "rant" (however a bit shorter than normal), this is a perfect example of Apple not giving a crap about this issue. I have a legitimate problem and I'm not even close to being the only one and Apple can't just contact us via email after seeing all of our "rants" and just say "sorry you are having this problem, nothing we can do, talk to router manufacturer." Instead, Apple honors their customers shelling out hard earned money (and in my case student loan money that could have gone to better things since I am unemployed because of the economy, but I started school and really needed a laptop) to buy their products, by deleting their posts in the "support" forums! Very unprofessional in my opinion. However, I am done ranting, it never gets you anywhere any ways. Apple wants sheep like Microsoft has sheep, then so be it.

I promise to not rant ever again on these forums but I would like some help on router replacement suggestions. If Apple doesn't play well with everything, what does it play well with? That would be pretty constructive to post on here 🙂

Message was edited by: forum1983