Q: Dropping Wi FI Signal

Bill (hope that's okay), I have long suspected you either are or were an Apple engineer. In any event, I am grateful for all the time you devote to this board. You know, from a simple business perspective, it would be really beneficial to Apple, and beneficial to everyone who has posted to this board, for Apple to just SAY WHAT YOU HAVE SAID! As we are just now seeing with Toyota, remaining silent is rarely a good business strategy. What some customers are seeing here is that a network that works fine for iPhones, Windows PCs, and older Mac OS's does not work for a MBP running SL. Apple's testing may not have seen this coming, but when it did, remaining silent strikes me as a bad business decision.

To everyone else: BTW, the Apple engineer I have been working with told me that he is certain there is more than one underlying problem here. So even if he figures out what my issue is, that seems unlikely to resolve everyone else's.

Bill's fine.

Nope, I'm not an Apple engineer, but rather an engineer who's been dealing with operating systems and device drivers for over 20 years now, and some of the problems I've seen in my career are truly legendary, including one caused by a firmware bug that I found in a product that had been shipping for years with absolutely zero complaints from any other customer simply because no other driver performed the exact same sequence of operations in the exact same time period that my driver did. Then there are the processor hardware errata I've found…

I've also been an Mac user for over 20 years and so have a familiarity with how Apple operates, and for better or worse they very, very rarely comment on issues occurring in the field and in general only admit to bugs when a update is released that fixes them. That's just who they are as a company and it very likely won't change unless Steve decides it should.

In this particular case, we still don't know who is to blame. If, for example, it turns out to be a D-Link issue, Apple will notify D-Link silently behind the scenes - they see no point in calling them out and saying "D-Link routers are broken." Unfortunately, there are also vendors out there who also take the attitude of "Windows users running our cards and using our drivers don't see it, so we don't care what you've found.)

The Apple engineer you have been working with is very likely correct in that Wi-Fi drops are caused by a multitude of issues that have unfortunately been lumped together in this single thread. Further, for every person who in frustration exclaims that this cannot be a router issue and must be an Apple bug, there is one who (usually in a different thread) has found their problems have gone away after changing their router's channel, updating their firmware, or taking their machine to the Apple Store and found the issue diagnosed as a failing AirPort card.

I feel the need to restate the fact that *I've been there myself*; a few years ago I purchased a new MBP and had constant Wi-Fi drops. I worked with an Apple engineer myself to resolve the issue and haven't had a single Wi-Fi drop on multiple Macs in any location since.

I certainly remember the days when I wanted to throw my expensive new MBP out the window, given the iBook it had replaced never ever had a problem on the exact same Wi-Fi network (in fact I would have returned my MBP had it not been a custom-ordered configuration, making it non-returnable.) But had I been able to do so, it's likely that bug would still exist in the AirPort drivers, waiting to bite me after some future upgrade.

Unfortunately, the interaction between two highly complex devices is and always will be problematic, and industry standards are the only thing one can fall back on. That's why, like clockwork, every time Apple releases an AirPort fix, you'll see several users dancing in the streets because their problems are *finally fixed*, accompanied by new threads stating that Apple broke their AirPort and complaining that Apple must not test their software before they release it.

William Kucharski wrote:
Bill's fine.

I certainly remember the days when I wanted to throw my expensive new MBP out the window, given the iBook it had replaced never ever had a problem on the exact same Wi-Fi network (in fact I would have returned my MBP had it not been a custom-ordered configuration, making it non-returnable.) But had I been able to do so, it's likely that bug would still exist in the AirPort drivers, waiting to bite me after some future upgrade.

Are you saying your work with Apple resulted in a bug fix for an Airport driver? It gives us hope that might work out in the end.

I agree with you the interactions can be complex. The earlier post to the Linksys WRT54 multitude of versions was a real eye opener. Changing wireless chips, changing the operating system, reducing memory to nothing - it would amaze me that these changes did not break many networks. I found two WRT54's in my "junk" pile of routers. So I must have had them "break" and my solution was to just get another router. I probably tried some troubleshooting but gave up. Maybe they work now that I have different computers and OS's in the house.

ctmurray wrote:
Are you saying your work with Apple resulted in a bug fix for an Airport driver? It gives us hope that might work out in the end.

For that particular problem, yes, it did and it was included in the next released AirPort update.

As frustrated as people here are, I hope some can take solace from the fact that Apple does in general do a very good job of fixing bugs in their software when they can isolate them and do something about it.

If anyone reading this knows Steve Jobs - the closest I got was I did know the guy who designed the original Mac (Jeff Raskin, now sadly deceased) - please suggest he watches the old Paul Newman movie "Cool Hand Luke". (If you know the movie, you'll know why this is relevant to this discussion.)

It is amazing that so much has been posted to this thread without any resolution. Maybe we can try for a Guinness world record here.

I also have been experiencing sporadic WiFi network problems on my SL MBP since getting it in December. That's why I'm posting from my Tiger iBook, which continues to be reliable.

Unfortunately, from my sampling of other postings in this thread, one would have to conclude that there is no simple solution. Let's hope that it is actually an issue with SL, which eventually will be fixed, and not related to hardware like the MBP antenna.

Peace.

Since disabling IPv6 I HAVE NOT had a single drop in over a week and improved performance. NO OTHER CHANGES. Just IPv6. Anybody else tried this? Any other successes? I would suggest trying if you have not already.

yes I tried disabling ipv6, this does not make any difference

My frustration is because when I was a PC user, I never got a problem that I couldn't solve. Even diagnose an faulty hardware is hard. When we buy some stuff, we expect that this works well, as announced.

I guess that 10.6.3 update will not solve this issue. I want to, but don't believe.

Sawamur,

I'd hate to drop the news to ya, but if you had the time to read this entire thread (hahaha), you will see that the DNS has NOTHING to do with the Mac OS software/hardware combination problem that is dropping the signal (as in, all of a sudden thinks that it no longer wants to stay connected to the signal that is obviously there).

It still happens to me periodically, once a week, may be once every 10 days. It's totally random.

pedrosaddi wrote:
My frustration is because when I was a PC user, I never got a problem that I couldn't solve. Even diagnose an faulty hardware is hard. When we buy some stuff, we expect that this works well, as announced.

FWIW, as I have one Windows laptop, and it drops its Wi-Fi connection on a semi-regular basis while my Macs are rock-solid.

I think the real issue is Wi-Fi drops have a multitude of causes and it's impossible to do anything but fix the repeatable issues when they can be reproduced and diagnosed.

pedrosaddi wrote:
My frustration is because when I was a PC user, I never got a problem that I couldn't solve. Even diagnose an faulty hardware is hard. When we buy some stuff, we expect that this works well, as announced.

I guess that 10.6.3 update will not solve this issue. I want to, but don't believe.

Given enough time I have also solved all my PC (and Mac) issues. Fortunately my PC is my employers and they have great tech support. But I have way more problems with my PC.

In my readings it is obvious that wifi network connections are problematic. Two many variables and interactions. So many solutions appear to work for a few people.

I agree that we just expect (or hope) new equipment will work out of the box. But if we wait until the entire system is rock solid, then we never get anywhere - perfection is the biggest roadblock to "good enough".

Having read all the posts on this thread and discussed the issue with Apple Engineers and despite them having data from my system which has been running for several years and apart from the router all the kit is Apple. Once I upgraded to 10.6.0 on one machine the wifi system locks and no other machine can get on to the system. So it has to be rebooted. The 10.6. machine cannot be the first to get on the system as it cannot not get the correct signal. I have followed the Apple Engineers suggestion of doing clean installs all to no avail.

In my simple mind it is an Apple issue with 10.6 and relates to how 10.6 and my airport extreme handles communication and hands out ip addresses. I am waiting for 10.6.3 and hope this will resolve the issue however, I do not hold out much hope. Our voice has not been heard loud enough despite this being one of the longest threads in the history or Mac's.

Will I ever upgrade again NO.

Apple please try and sort these issues out or even just acknowledge that there is an issue that you are working on. A very frustrated Apple user of some 10 years.

Took the time to make another call to Apple Care to remind them my wireless connection issues still haven't been resolved. Had to endure more insinuations of user error before I got the guy to understand I've spend several hours with Apple's network engineers who recognize there is a problem. Still no solution in site. Had to resort to purchasing a USB 3G wireless card so I can use my 2009 Macbook Pro on the road. It's embarrassing when I go to a coffee shop and I have to explain to the owner why I can't take advantage of his free high-speed net. The monthly rates I pay for 3G when everyone else connects for free are just salt in the wound.

sjrozas wrote:
Took the time to make another call to Apple Care to remind them my wireless connection issues still haven't been resolved. Had to endure more insinuations of user error before I got the guy to understand I've spend several hours with Apple's network engineers who recognize there is a problem. Still no solution in site. Had to resort to purchasing a USB 3G wireless card so I can use my 2009 Macbook Pro on the road. It's embarrassing when I go to a coffee shop and I have to explain to the owner why I can't take advantage of his free high-speed net. The monthly rates I pay for 3G when everyone else connects for free are just salt in the wound.

It bugs me when you are calling tech support for the nth time you still have to go through the same quiz/process with the operator. I had this issue with Comcast when I had poor internet service for several weeks. Each time I called they had to follow the same old lame script starting with me rebooting everything under the sun. All I wanted to do was let them know they had not solved my problem and please just register on some database that I had called again.

I thought Apple though gave you an incident report number so they would remember you.