Q: Dropping Wi FI Signal

I just want to state that I've been at a motel for the past few days that has free wi-fi and there has not been a problem with the Wi-Fi. Despite the router being fine for other machines in the house, it is more then apparent that it's either that or my ISP throttling. There are more people connected to the wi-fi here, the router is far away from our room and it's as fast as ever. It's got to be the Belkin having a hard time with flash heavy web pages. Any solution? Too much data to crunch at once?

They could try what Microsoft is doing that allows PCs to connect and work just fine without updating router firmware, (impossible to do on someone else's router when outside of your home), changing various settings, WEP, channels, clearing P-lists, and the list goes on. Sometimes you have to admit what you are doing isn't working and the competition is the one that has it right. It's a mobile world and not being able to connect to it consistently and reliably isn't a minor annoyance that can be overlooked or that an unreliable workaround can be thrown at.
I've been dealing with this issue since I bought the new 13" Macbook Pro in June 2009. 10 months without a fix is beyond ridiculous in terms of customer service and commitment. I was really hoping the latest upgrade would fix the issue but it didn't.

sjrozas wrote:
They could try what Microsoft is doing that allows PCs to connect and work just fine without updating router firmware, (impossible to do on someone else's router when outside of your home), changing various settings, WEP, channels, clearing P-lists, and the list goes on. Sometimes you have to admit what you are doing isn't working and the competition is the one that has it right.

People have this perception but if you want I can give you an endless list of Windows issues (as can Internet searches) with Wi-Fi. It doesn't "always" work regardless of your operating system. Interference issues and channel collisions are platform-agnostic.

I think the difference is most people expect Windows not to work right, so it's not as surprising when it doesn't, and when it doesn't people are used to having to reinstall the operating system and crossing their fingers.

Don't get me wrong, Apple does have bugs in their software from time to time, but the issue is nowhere near as clear cut as you might think.

Finally, if you have a system that has no issues running Leopard on which AirPort doesn't work the way you'd like in Snow Leopard, there's no shame in running Leopard. It's still supported with bug fixes, and while it's not quite as fast as Snow Leopard on the same hardware, it's very, very usable.

Don't waste months complaining that Snow Leopard broke something for you if you can become productive again just by moving back to Mac OS X 10.5.

Make your life easier - don't keep up with the bleeding edge if you don't have to and/or don't want to.

Perfectly put.

I run 10.5 on one of the MBPs that I take to clients offices, for exactly that reason. For me and my 3 MBPs 10.5 worked, 10.6 didn't. For some reason, in my geographical area, ATT DSL and the 2WIRE router/modems seem to be common, so I have had to go back to 10.5 for my travel heavy MBP.

Its just too bad that I paid for 10.6 and now I can't use it because of this issue. I am not going to return it, I will just keep it on some of the books and wait till it is fixed to put it on the mission critical ones.

One of the problems with going back to 10.5 is, what if (Like in my case of 2 MBPs) you purchased it with 10.6 on it? You simply can't go out and purchase 10.5 just for this issue, it is simply not cost effective. Lucky for me I purchased a few with 10.5 out of the box, but what if a person did not have that option? I am not saying that there is an answer to that question.

I am actually thinking that maybe Apple may want to chip in on getting anyone that has purchased a 10.6 machine a copy of 10.5. or some sort of alternative.

William Kucharski wrote:
Don't get me wrong, Apple does have bugs in their software from time to time, but the issue is nowhere near as clear cut as you might think.

But there is an issue here, and I still believe that Apple has and always had software engineers that could tackle such an issue. I think it's more a problem of setting the right priorities. And right now the priorities lie somewhere else.
What makes it hard to understand that all my fellow PC users seem not to have the same problems when, for example, sitting at the uni library, is the fact that Apple has it a lot easier to code a system that should just work out of the box. There are a very limited number of hardware configurations that Apple has to consider when releasing a system, I mean, they're the ones that put them on the market. Windows has to work on a gazillion of different configurations. Taking that in account, it becomes impressive what Microsoft has achieved with Windows 7 and pretty sad that Apple can't even code a system that comes without bugs affecting the most basic of functions...

Finally, if you have a system that has no issues running Leopard on which AirPort doesn't work the way you'd like in Snow Leopard, there's no shame in running Leopard. It's still supported with bug fixes, and while it's not quite as fast as Snow Leopard on the same hardware, it's very, very usable.

Don't waste months complaining that Snow Leopard broke something for you if you can become productive again just by moving back to Mac OS X 10.5.

Make your life easier - don't keep up with the bleeding edge if you don't have to and/or don't want to.

You're kidding, right? According to you, next time Apple releases a System it should put a beta sticker on it.. Snow Leopard is the standard, it has nothing to do with "bleeding edge". Moreover, if I buy a new Mac (which I did this winter) and it comes with SL, are you telling me that I should be downgrading the system? What happened to "it just works"...

Message was edited by: samuelaebi

NicholasKell wrote:
One of the problems with going back to 10.5 is, what if (Like in my case of 2 MBPs) you purchased it with 10.6 on it? You simply can't go out and purchase 10.5 just for this issue, it is simply not cost effective. Lucky for me I purchased a few with 10.5 out of the box, but what if a person did not have that option? I am not saying that there is an answer to that question.

Then you can't say those machines "worked perfectly" with 10.5, either and your decision is to either stick with it or return the machine if you didn't buy it as a custom configuration.

You can't just "go backwards" - the drivers needed for new machines didn't exist for 10.5, so a copy of Leopard wouldn't do you any good, anyway.

My Macbook Pro came with Leopard and the wireless issues. In your haste to jump to Apple's defense you must have overlooked that little nugget.

samuelaebi wrote:
What makes it hard to understand that all my fellow PC users seem not to have the same problems when, for example, sitting at the uni library, is the fact that Apple has it a lot easier to code a system that should just work out of the box. There are a very limited number of hardware configurations that Apple has to consider when releasing a system, I mean, they're the ones that put them on the market.

Yes, but the problem is interacting with third party routers, of which there are literally thousands of permutations of hardware models that have changed over time, firmware levels and so on.

I've used this example before, but take a look at the multiple variants that exist of one single product, the Linksys WRT54G:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinksysWRT54Gseries

So if say, Apple wanted to say they had tested completely against that one single model of router, there are 17 hardware variations plus multiple versions of firmware for each.

Windows has it easier as the manufacturer of each device is responsible for providing a driver for their bit of hardware (often only tested with their routers as well, sadly.)

Further, many manufacturers couldn't give a #$@1 about interoperability and if their product works with Windows, they ship it.

Windows also doesn't "have" to work at all - I can't tell you the number of times I've taken a Windows system out of the box and it hasn't worked, period, without an hour of downloading this driver update, that firmware update, etc.

You're kidding, right? According to you, next time Apple releases a System it should put a beta sticker on it.. Snow Leopard is the standard, it has nothing to do with "bleeding edge". Moreover, if I buy a new Mac (which I did this winter) and it comes with SL, are you telling me that I should be downgrading the system? What happened to "it just works"...

Every system I have does.

All of my co-workers' do.

All of the units in Apple Stores do (I've never seen a Mac on display in an Apple Store drop its connection.)

So, we're left with a dilemma, aren't we?

I know if you're the one having a problem, it su--- really, really badly. Believe me, I've been there. I've mentioned before when I first bought a MBP a few years ago, I had nothing but problems with it dropping its AirPort connection - something that was finally fixed in an AirPort update after working with Apple's techs to find a solution. So I literally know how you feel.

But I also know were it not for reading AD, despite knowing literally hundreds of Mac users I don't know of a single one that's had an AirPort issue in Snow Leopard. Really.

I also know as I type this, I've two MBPs that are rock solid on AirPort 100% of the time… and a Windows XP laptop that refuses to even acknowledge the existence of my Wi-Fi access point despite the fact it's sitting about three feet away from it.

So where does that leave us?

As I said, if you have the problem, and have a known configuration that works, and don't have the time to deal with it, use it. I had a shiny new MBP and kept using my old iBook as it worked fine.

If you don't have a choice, all you can do is either work with Apple to fix the problem, try workarounds to fix the problem, return it, or if it works for you install Boot Camp and run Windows.

William Kucharski wrote:

NicholasKell wrote:
One of the problems with going back to 10.5 is, what if (Like in my case of 2 MBPs) you purchased it with 10.6 on it? You simply can't go out and purchase 10.5 just for this issue, it is simply not cost effective. Lucky for me I purchased a few with 10.5 out of the box, but what if a person did not have that option? I am not saying that there is an answer to that question.

Then you can't say those machines "worked perfectly" with 10.5, either and your decision is to either stick with it or return the machine if you didn't buy it as a custom configuration.

You can't just "go backwards" - the drivers needed for new machines didn't exist for 10.5, so a copy of Leopard wouldn't do you any good, anyway.

Well, for me, yes I can say that they "worked perfectly" as they did. My problems came with 10.6, prior to that, the wireless worked. I use 10.6 at my desks where it is not inconvenient to have a cable plugged into the machine, and 10.5 for the road.

You are correct that you can not just slap 10.5 on any ol' new MB or MBP without looking over the hardware config, but if the hardware is the same, you can. I have a MBP that came with 10.6, and it now has 10.5 on it as I am writing this.

William Kucharski wrote:
So if say, Apple wanted to say they had tested completely against that one single model of router, there are 17 hardware variations plus multiple versions of firmware for each.

Yes, there are an exponential amount of configurations, but if I am not mistaken, they all speak similar languages, TCP and IP. Last time I checked, the system driver lets the OS talk to the hardware in the computer. Since Apple handles the hardware and the software they handle the drivers themselves. Sometimes they write the drivers in house, sometimes they get the drivers from the manufacturer of the piece of hardware.

The reason that Microsoft has all the manufacturers submit drivers for their products, is because MS says that if you want your hardware to work with me, you need to write the driver, and so MS gives out the SDK for that very reason. There are many many common drivers that are included in almost every OS, and that includes drivers for pointing devices, and external hard drives to name a couple.

It is this very reason that Apple has been the superior computer for so long. They take care of hardware and software, limiting the options of additional hardware, thus limiting the configuration problems.

William Kucharski wrote:
But I also know were it not for reading AD, despite knowing literally hundreds of Mac users I don't know of a single one that's had an AirPort issue in Snow Leopard. Really.

Maybe this is all in my head then. Try [here|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=snowleopard+wireless+problems&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=snow+leopardwire&gs_rfai=|Google my friend]

William Kucharski wrote:
If you don't have a choice, all you can do is either work with Apple to fix the problem, try workarounds to fix the problem, return it, or if it works for you install Boot Camp and run Windows.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I have worked with Apple on this, and with ATT. I have not ever had a problem of this magnitude. I have solved all my other hangups by working with Apple, or just simply reading AD. Heck, I made an account on here just for this issue.

Returning it is not particularly an option, since my business depends on Final Cut Studio to survive. Not to mention Aperture 3 now has possession of all of my personal photos. And I have Maya, ZBrush, Foundry Nuke, and Adobe Master Collection all mac versions. I am not about to return all this just for a wireless problem.

Boot Camp certainly should not be an answer for anyone. There is no way that I would settle for Boot Camp. Returning the machine is more of an option. I am not going to spend what it costs for a MBP just to have to resort to an inferior OS on a supreme frame. That's like saying "Oh, your carburetor on your Ferrari is acting up? Here just slap in this VW engine."


Apple will eventually fix this.

Updating to 10.6.3 has suddenly caused my computer to START having wifi problems. suddenly it drops it for no reason; i now have network diagnostics constantly open to counteract it as soon as the signal is dropped. i first noticed it the morning after updating it, and then my husband and i noticed it would drop the signal after he turned on his laptop and accessed the internet--as if the new signal was interfering with the iMac's signal. even when the iMac has lost its signal, my iPod Touch is fully connected and my husband's PC-laptop doesn't have any issues at all.
it still occasionally will drop the signal for no apparent reason.
it would be great to know what suddenly caused the the problems...

NicholasKell wrote:

Well, for me, yes I can say that they "worked perfectly" as they did. My problems came with 10.6, prior to that, the wireless worked. I use 10.6 at my desks where it is not inconvenient to have a cable plugged into the machine, and 10.5 for the road.

And that's exactly why I cannot understand what's happening. Apple had a system that worked. So they must have done something to change that in 10.6.

William Kucharski wrote:
So if say, Apple wanted to say they had tested completely against that one single model of router, there are 17 hardware variations plus multiple versions of firmware for each.

Yes, there are an exponential amount of configurations, but if I am not mistaken, they all speak similar languages, TCP and IP. Last time I checked, the system driver lets the OS talk to the hardware in the computer. Since Apple handles the hardware and the software they handle the drivers themselves. Sometimes they write the drivers in house, sometimes they get the drivers from the manufacturer of the piece of hardware.

So basically it must be the routers that have buggy implementations of the different protocols. But isn't it weird that it's my MacBook having these problems and none of the Windows laptops around me. It seems the buggy implementation is in the driver that Apple provides.

William Kucharski wrote:
But I also know were it not for reading AD, despite knowing literally hundreds of Mac users I don't know of a single one that's had an AirPort issue in Snow Leopard. Really.

Maybe this is all in my head then. Try [here|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=snowleopard+wireless+problems&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=snow+leopardwire&gs_rfai=|Google my friend]

Literally all of the people that I talked to that upgraded to 10.6 have been experiencing this problem at the uni library. Same thing when a friend came over to my house.
It would be easy to get an Airport base station at home, but what am I supposed to do when I'm on the road?

William Kucharski wrote:
If you don't have a choice, all you can do is either work with Apple to fix the problem, try workarounds to fix the problem, return it, or if it works for you install Boot Camp and run Windows.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I have worked with Apple on this, and with ATT. I have not ever had a problem of this magnitude. I have solved all my other hangups by working with Apple, or just simply reading AD. Heck, I made an account on here just for this issue.

Same here.

Returning it is not particularly an option, since my business depends on Final Cut Studio to survive. Not to mention Aperture 3 now has possession of all of my personal photos. And I have Maya, ZBrush, Foundry Nuke, and Adobe Master Collection all mac versions. I am not about to return all this just for a wireless problem.

Boot Camp certainly should not be an answer for anyone. There is no way that I would settle for Boot Camp. Returning the machine is more of an option. I am not going to spend what it costs for a MBP just to have to resort to an inferior OS on a supreme frame. That's like saying "Oh, your carburetor on your Ferrari is acting up? Here just slap in this VW engine."

bingo.

Apple will eventually fix this.

fingers crossed.

After updating my MBP on 10.6.3 the WiFi dropping issue is common but surprisingly I noticed that at one location where we have D-Link and TP-Link access points the signal drops frequently whereas on Linksys it stays connected much longer...this is surprising but this is what I experiences for the past few days. I hope Apple will come-up with a solution for this annoying problem.

NicholasKell wrote:
Yes, there are an exponential amount of configurations, but if I am not mistaken, they all speak similar languages, TCP and IP. Last time I checked, the system driver lets the OS talk to the hardware in the computer. Since Apple handles the hardware and the software they handle the drivers themselves. Sometimes they write the drivers in house, sometimes they get the drivers from the manufacturer of the piece of hardware.

It's not so much the issue of TCP/IP, it's 802.11.

Apple writes their drivers to comply with the spec. So, theoretically, do Windows vendors.

But Windows vendors have a tendency to introduce little non-standard extensions that often times don't play well with what the specs say. One example is UPnP, which has not only caused problems with Macs but also with Wiis, PlayStation 3s, Linux machines, including TiVOs, and other devices using Wi-Fi.

They also have a tendency as I've mentioned to say "our router works with our Wi-Fi stick running our drivers - it must be compliant!" This leads to many of the issues people have had that are eventually fixed with a router firmware upgrade, despite the router working with "every Windows PC."

The example of this I've mentioned before is if a router has a firmware bug such that it calculates "2 + 3" as "5" but "3 + 2" as "6", and Windows and Mac OS X Leopard only added "2 + 3," Apple should in no way modify Snow Leopard not to add "3 + 2" just because some small subset of routers are broken.

Further, I realize that there are a lot of people here suffering from the issue, but this is also a self-selected sample, so you don't see the literally millions of users who have no problems with AirPort.

But I can assure you Apple does care, and fixes issues when it can find/reproduce them.

I know that doesn't help if you've had the problem for a while and it seems like it's been unaddressed.

William Kucharski wrote:

NicholasKell wrote:
Yes, there are an exponential amount of configurations, but if I am not mistaken, they all speak similar languages, TCP and IP. Last time I checked, the system driver lets the OS talk to the hardware in the computer. Since Apple handles the hardware and the software they handle the drivers themselves. Sometimes they write the drivers in house, sometimes they get the drivers from the manufacturer of the piece of hardware.

It's not so much the issue of TCP/IP, it's 802.11.

I stand corrected.

Apple writes their drivers to comply with the spec. So, theoretically, do Windows vendors.

Yes they do. It is this that leads me to believe that it is not only Apple to blame. There is certainly a pattern here, it seems to me like the problems are only with a handful of routers. 2WIRE being one of them. To what I have observed, most of the routers with the problem are cheaper type routers. I personally do not recall anyone reporting any Cisco or (Cisco's Little brother) Linksys router issues. It always seems to be these cheap ones. Which, to anyone with a good router (and hence without these wireless problems) would be lead to say that it is only a router issue. Well, I am not sold on that either, as my systems (as well as the OP of the thread) all worked fine with 10.5.

But I can assure you Apple does care, and fixes issues when it can find/reproduce them.

I know that doesn't help if you've had the problem for a while and it seems like it's been unaddressed.

I absolutely agree. I personally don't think that this problem has been left unaddressed, they are working on it. And rightfully so , it just isn't as high of a priority as some of the other tasks that they are working on (because of the small number of problem cases vs. the success stories).



One fix that anyone could do at a place that they have full control over, is to go out and purchase an AirPort Express Base Station, or the Extreme and hook it up in bridge mode. I know that is certainly not the answer that anyone is looking for, but it is an option. I, as well as anyone else with this problem, doesn't want to just toss more money at this, because quite frankly I figure that I spent enough on my Apple equipment that I shouldn't have to keep tossing more and more money at it. But on the other hand, an AirPort Express is at the highest percent only 10% of the cost of what you would have spent on your MB, and that is if you had purchased the plastic one. Now any household or place of business that has multiple MBPs that percent just lowered substantially.

I'm having trouble with the wifi on our MacBook pro. The problems started when I plugged in an external hard drive for time machine to run a backup. Since then the wirelessconnection won't connect for the most part, it's refusing to accept the wpa2 password whereas my iPhone is running fine (hence the ability to post!). I've got a d-link 615 router for which I've tried changing various settings through the Ethernet as per the forums but no solution yet.

This is unbelievably frustrating. I wish apple would either fix it or at the least put out guidance of a list of things to try for non-techy people who don't understand what all the settings mean.