How Many Pixels Are In An Anamorphic NTSC Frame Anyway?

720x480.

Read the aspect ratios page, from the same site as your link:
http://home1.gte.net/res0mrb7/widescreen/ratios.html

All the numbers they threw out on the link you posted were for 1.85:1 and 2.39:1, where 16:9 footage is actually 1.78:1.

All NTSC DV is 720x480.

CCIR 601 MPEG-2 is 720x480 as well.
http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/research/mpeg/faq/mpeg2-v38/faq_v38.html

I also found this nice little listing:
NTSC (NTSC Film)
Video:
Up to 9.8 Mbps* (9800 kbps*) MPEG2 video
Up to 1.856 Mbps (1856 kbps) MPEG1 video
720 x 480 pixels MPEG2 (Called Full-D1)
704 x 480 pixels MPEG2
352 x 480 pixels MPEG2 (Called Half-D1, same as the CVD Standard)
352 x 240 pixels MPEG2
352 x 240 pixels MPEG1 (Same as the VCD Standard)
29,97 fps*
23,976 fps with 3:2 pulldown = 29,97 playback fps (NTSC Film, this is only supported by MPEG2 video)
16:9 Anamorphic (only supported by 720x480)
http://www.videohelp.com/dvd

720x480 in DV NTSC anamorphic (or std).

don't confuse scanlines with pixels.

cheers,
x

Is anamorphic for NTSC just a flag to the DVD player and/or TV?

Yes, and for FCP, and Motion, etc. It just tells whatever is displaying that footage to stretch the 720x480 (for NTSC DV) to a 16:9 aspect ratio.

How does FCP deal with anamorphic? If it's just a flag, then can I simply turn on anamorphic and FCP will just "crop" off things assuming it's really a 16:9 letter box clip?

FCP deals with anamorphic as follows: if the anamorphic flag isn't checked, it displays the footage in a 4:3 format. If the anamorphic flag is checked, it displays it in a 16:9 format. Checking the flag does no "cropping", it just stretches it horizontally to a 16:9 aspect ratio.

I think you're confusing letterboxing, which is a non-anamorphic 4:3 picture with black bars at the top and bottom, making the picture within the black bars 16:9, with anamorphic, which is a 16:9 picture squeezed into a 4:3 frame, which if viewed on a 4:3 set that doesn't display it correctly, will appear as if the people are all tall and thin, with gaunt faces.

Anamorphic and letterbox are 2 completely different things. Anamorphic footage uses all available vertical pixels (480 in NTSC DV) to save the image, where letterbox footage uses some of those vertical pixels to save the image, but some on the top and bottom to save black so that when it's displayed on a 4:3 screen it looks fine.

Edit: the best way to see this in action is for you to play around with several things in Final Cut:
Create a non-anamorphic sequence and an anamorphic sequence.
Import some footage that is non-anamorphic, and some footage that is anamorphic (ensuring that the flags are set correctly).
Now play around with putting the footage in the different sequences and see what Final Cut does with it. Notice how the anamorphic sequence doesn't have black bars at the top and bottom in the canvas. Note what the picture looks like, whether it's distorted or not, has black bars put on the sides or top and bottom, etc, as you play around with it.

If you turn off the anamorphic flag on a clip that was recorded that way, FCP will simply treat the clip as though it is a 4:3 clip and it will appear distorted. Remember it is the SAME number of pixels, just a different aspect ratio.

Is anamorphic for NTSC just a flag to the DVD player and/or TV?

yes, this is why if you do not set it, your video will look squashed when played. the DVD player does the necessary reconfiguring on the fly.

The link you quoted is talking about what happens AFTER the DVD player gets ahold of the movie and is trying to make sense of it.

This stuff is already complex enough. You are just going to confuse and upset the children. Why go make trouble where none is needed? lol.
x

Kevin,

I just found this link, lots more useful information for ya...
http://gregl.net/videophile/anamorphic.htm

An interesting line from that page:
"Standard televisions are already appearing that have a switch to squeeze the picture vertically by 25% without losing any resolution; the exact amount necessary to enjoy anamorphic DVDs at full resolution. The resulting picture is the same size as it would have been after scaling; the only difference is the higher resolution."

That directly answers your scan line question (and does alot better job explaining it all than I ever could).

Also, read the section titled "No Such Thing As Anamorphic?" Lots of good info there.

Kevin,

You are correct, but take out "DV" in your statements.

In an anamorphic frame, the image is distorted, or stretched in the vertical direction...

Yes, either the DVD player can handle this stretching, or the TV might as well (depends on the capabilities of your TV and/or DVD player).

That one article I linked to made it sound like there are 4:3 tvs out there that somehow realign their guns, or something, so that the image doesn't have to get compressed, it's just displayed as-is, but the scanlines on the TV are somehow compressed vertically.

Hi Jeff

I work for a certain well-known adult cable network as an editor.

I never work in anamorphic timelines even though almost all of our footage was shot in 16:9. So that means that anyone with a widescreen TV who watches my shows is still going to see color bars, right?

Another editor at my network always works in anamorphic timelines. So that means that some customers, maybe ones with older TV sets, are seeing a distorted image, right?

Also--I'm not at work right now, so I can't verify for myself--can we CAPTURE as an anamorphic Quicktime, or is that only a feature that is in the timeline?

And, after rendering an anamorphic timeline, if you play that Quicktime file back on your Mac, will Quicktime know to stretch out that image so that it is viewed normally, or will you see an unstretched, distorted image?

Thanks for any enlightenment....

Tasty -

Not sure what all you're talking about. Perhaps if you sent me a few titles I could diagnose it. 😉

As for capturing, the camera is supposed to flag the footage as 16x9 and it'll show up in the Browser with a checkmark in the Anamorphic column. If the camera does not do this or you are using an anamorphic lens which FCP could not know about, add the check yourself.

Russ

Russ

Sorry, I typed my post late at night. When I say "color bars" I meant to say "letterboxing"--the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen and Quicktime file.

I never work in an anamorphic timeline. Although I'm not at work right now, I see letterboxing in the Quicktime files of footage captured from the tapes; I see letterboxing in FCP's canvas; I see letterboxing on the NTSC monitor to which FCP is sending video out; and I think (I can't remember now) I see letterboxing in FCP's viewer too.

I have never viewed my work on a widescreen TV. But from what I'm telling you above, you would guess that all or most widescreen TVs would also have letterboxing when displaying my video, since I never flagged any files as anamorphic. Right?

Or would even that depend on the aspect ration setting of the TV?

I'm asking because I see distorted letterboxed images on widescreen TVs in stores all the time. I'm wondering if that's just that someone has the TV on a strange setting, or if whoever sent the image out to broadcast may have mixed up aspect ratios.

Now, the way my network works is that we sell one or two-hour long blocks of shows. These "shows" are in turn composed of 7 or 8 different "scenes" separated by bumpers. All us editors cut scenes from scratch on some days; other days we take the built scenes and make shows.

Since for both the scenes and shows, some editors prefer to work in anamorphic timeline, and others don't, of course every once in a while there's a screw-up and the Digibeta that we send out has a section where the video looks stretched or squeezed.

I'm guess what I'm asking you is, how would you work in this scenario, to make sure the most people saw the correct aspect ratio (since this is international cable TV and Video On Demand or Pay Per View). I'd like everyone in the department to be on the same page.

Oh, and I've sent you a videoclip of a scene I edited myself ... for diagnostical purposes.

For my, I just prefer seeing an undistored image all the time, that's why I never work in anamorphic. But whatever's best for the end viewer ...

--Tasty

Slightly off topic, but this makes me wonder what resolution HD-DVD or BluRay will use? Might they be full raster 1920 X1080?
or would they use 1440X1080 16:9 to produce 1920X1080 the same way this thread discusses SD DVDs using 720X480 16:9 DVDs?
I know this is what HDV, DVCPRO HD, & HDCAM do. (but i think HDCAM SR is full 1920X1080)...

-brian