USB timeout Problems with a large USB/Midi setup

I have a large USB midi controller setup - using Logic Pro 8 and a Macbook 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB ram and running 10.5.8. It's used in a live performance situation with Logic acting as a Midi sound source for all the controllers. I've used the environment page to setup each controller's access to the sounds/samplers needed. It runs fine 93% of the time but i have encountered a few problems with USB connections. I know it's a sin to use USB hubs, and they are probably the cause of the problem. I have 6 controllers running : M-Audio Oxygen 8 v2-2 each , O2, Axiom 61, Trigger finger, and Alesis Control Pad. 1 hub with 3 controllers in one USB port of the Macbook, another hub with 3 controller in the other USB port of the Macbook.

Occasionally the USB devices can't talk to Logic, but a disconnect- replug gets them going again, and, less frequently, the USB inputs on the Macbook quit working completely- disconnect and replug has no effect. Restart is the only solution here. Audio-Midi Setup doesn't even see the controllers turning off and on.

2 Questions:
1. What specifically happens to the USB inputs when talking to USB hubs that would cause such a problem? Does the Macbook USB port poll the hub to see if it's alive? or...?
2. When operating 2 M-Audio Oxygen8v2's, their identities switch randomly. They are configured in Audio Midi interface with distinct names, and always plugged into the same USB ports. Every third day or so, the system comes up and mixes the identities. How does each individual controller-especially 2 of the same model- identify itself in it's transmission to the USB ports of the Macbook?


Anyone who can help me with the nuts and bolts of how the Macbook handles these USB transmissions would be much appreciated.
thanks.

Imac, Mac OS X (10.5.8)

Posted on Sep 7, 2009 5:45 PM

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3 replies

Sep 7, 2009 6:56 PM in response to KevinS217

First, are you using powered hubs, if not I would see if someone you know has a powered USB hub to try.

It sounds to me like you're experiencing USB power downs. Welcome to the world of Intel, I'm not sure if older pre-Intel Macs did this but I know for sure Intel motherboards and Intel related chipsets have a feature that turns off the power to USB devices not in use for a certain length of time whether that be a single device or a hub that's being powered by the computer.

pancenter-

In Windows XP (and above) the USB properties/power management in Device Manager allows this feature to be disabled. There's a check box named "Allow Computer to turn off this device to save power", in a default install this box is checked. On my PC I uncheck that for any ports where I need continuous power.

My point is, the power down function is built into hardware and needs to be managed by the OS. I haven't looked closely at how the Mac manages USB power but would think there's a setting in some obscure plist that set the ports power down time.

As for the M-Audio keyboards switching identities... USB doesn't know from names, when the OS initializes the ports it can pick up either, it's hard to say why, maybe there's other processes going on, with that many USB devices hooked up it could even be a power issue.

I dislike USB, it's "dumb". Dumb in the sense it is not an intelligent protocol.
It depends on the computer/OS for it's intelligence.

Sep 7, 2009 8:06 PM in response to Pancenter

Thanks- I'll look into the plist idea.

also- yes- I'm using powered hubs.

I don't have a dislike for USB in general yet- the M-Audio stuff is cool because, with their Enigma librarian software, I can store all the presets for each controller and send out the info from the Macbook as changes are made to the setup. If I hooked all the stuff up with MIdi, I couldn't have that kind of control over the setup.
Anyway thanks for starting to shed some light on the inner workings of the USB side of the Macbook.

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USB timeout Problems with a large USB/Midi setup

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