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Aperture slow, library too large?

I am currently having big trouble with Aperture (2.1.4) running on my iMac 24" 3.06 GHz (running 10.6). The problem has nothing to do with the Snow Leopard/Aperture issue: I had the same problems running Leopard.

It takes just painfully long to adjust images (white balance, rotating, etc.). I see this rotating rainbow all the time, so frustrating! I only use RAW images from my 400D.

My library is currently 135GB big. Should I split it or something, so that Aperture can handle it better?
If so, is there a 'maximum size' the library should be?
Or is there an other solution for this problem?

Message was edited by: melkbus

Imac, Mac OS X (10.6)

Posted on Sep 10, 2009 3:11 AM

Reply
67 replies

Sep 12, 2009 12:15 PM in response to melkbus

I bought Aperture last week, loaded it three days ago, but it was terminally slow. I put this down to Snow Leopard. However my Time Machine was also causing a headache, so I detached the TM from the system. Aperture suddenly reacted like a keen puppy. It may be coincidence, but it's working.

I have since erased the TM and reattached it, it's working, as is Aperture.

Sep 12, 2009 12:23 PM in response to sizzling badger

sizzling badger wrote:
I think the reason you are locked out when the vault is updated is done by design so that the database is copied in a consistent manner. Adobe Light Room does the same thing by copying the catalogue during startup before you are allowed to touch it.



That's what I'd thought, but I think it'd still be better if it could take a snapshot and back that up, and just ignore any changes since the snapshot. Either that or as was implied earlier, real-time backup to the vault.

Sorry for the slight hi-jack of this thread BTW!!

Message was edited by: Shuttleworth125

Sep 13, 2009 6:15 AM in response to macorin

Hi MK,

I find it sad that Apple does not step to the aid of its customers by telling them what is required to operate their pro apps like Aperture in a professional manner. I understand commercially they want to appear to be all things to all people, and easy to use in all circumstances, but that is not reality.

All computer software has an operational sweet spot where it will function at maximum speed that the hardware is capable of. Unfortunately software companies do not tell you that…instead they publish minimum specifications, showing the point at which the software just limps along, and having less than this is not supported. If the application is for professional use, that spec is of no value.

A pro needs the ultimate in speed, reliability and data safety, with backups handled without fail. I have spent a good deal of time finding the sweet spot for Aperture, plus the associated programs to do professional photography.

Storage systems are a mystery to most people because there are many types of systems, over a wide series of price points, and are not already thought out as to their intended use.

Originally RAID systems were typically to increase speed and reliability of the local disk subsystem, typically 24/7 use, servers and such, and VERY expensive. Systems like this are still out there, but their use should be limited to professional IT. They buy the pro photographer very little, and are noisy, power hogs that need maintenance pro to keep running correctly. They do little to nothing to address backup or archival needs and typically cost so much most folks can’t afford them anyway.

Then, comes the “quasi RAID” stuff…I call this the dangerous with little knowledge gear. First of all, we should define what the job required before specifying hardware. Not all of this is created equal by a long shot, and you can spend money towards what sounds like the right gear, and while it probably will not kill your stuff in the end, the wrong stuff is not a good value on the best “bang for the buck” meter.

OK, first the sweet spot for your gear. You have the latest MBP 17”, the lone model with the Expresscard slot.

1) RAM – first, we need to operate without pageouts, as that slowdown will hurt more that the worst storage rig. Aperture running by itself needs 6GB of RAM to avoid pageouts. In my tests, 4GB still generated pageouts in normal operation. In my case I flip through images full screen, and a pageout would manifest itself as the spinning cursor. You rig can take 8GB, I would do that before anything else.

2) VRAM & GPU – I am assuming you have 512MB, smaller is not gonna hurt as much as a lack of main RAM, but will be slower on large files.

3) Fast Internal drive – two suggestions here, either go with the Seagate Momentus 7200RPM 500GB drive ($129), and go no more than 50% full…OR go with the new Crucial 256GB SSD ($654 and dropping fast) drive. You may already have the first one, as Apple made that a CTO option. If you have the Seagate, it has the ability to do a darn good job of handling a big Photoshop scratch disk at R/W at 90Mb/sec. The SSD is not a weapon of choice for large writes (flash RAM has a design limitation on writes), but reads, especially small ones are 15 TIMES the speed of a hard drive. I am using the Seagate at present, but have the SSD in another machine in the office and will be upgrading when the price drops a bit more.

4) Use the right storage bus – eSATA is the choice here today, faster than FW or USB, almost as fast but a fraction of the cost of SCSI or Fibre Channel. Your MBP is limited to two eSata channels, a limitation you need to understand the tradeoffs.

a. Use the best eSATA host card – that distinction currently goes to the Tempo SATA Pro ExpressCard/34 by Sonnet (TSATAII-PRO-E34). Retailing at $199, it is the most expensive, but the best of the 5 I tried. It has port multiplication capability, and it the fastest unit available.
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/temposataproexpress34.html

b. PM or not? - A very popular solution today involves PM or port multiplier technology for eSATA. This involves allowing up to 5 SATA drives to operate through one PM eSATA port, meaning up to ten on the 2 channel card. An eSATA port is by default a single channel, it only switches to PM status when a PM device is connected. Sadly, but as is always true, there is a significant performance hit running PM vs Single Channel SATA. If you had a Mac Pro, I would ONLY recommend direct connect, and buy as many 4-channel eSATA cards as needed. Given the 2 channel limitation of the MBP, understand that you would have to run a 3 disk stripe under PM to beat the speed of a two disk stripe running into each channel separately. When I am traveling, I run a 2 disk stripe using both single channels, and backup to a FW800 at night. At the office, I run one PM channel into 3 disk stripe, and into the 2 mirrors. If I setup the same rig using 5 channels on a Mac Pro I would see 40% more speed…even higher with each disk I add to the stripe.

5) Use the right drivers – This is so key, and overlooked all the time. At this level of RAID storage requirement, software RAID is the clear choice. Far more flexible and reliable, in many cases twice as fast as preconfigured hardware systems like the G-Tech RAID you mentioned, and much cheaper. IMO, the only game in town in SoftRAID ($129), and the gold standard for reliability and performance. (www.softraid.com) Their manual is a free download, and highly recommended reading. SoftRAID will allow you to integrate all disk subsystems, SATA FW, etc. and makes it easy.

6) Use the right disk config – This is where solutions like the G-Tech and LaCie, WD My Book and others fall flat on their faces. Reading and writing photo files efficiently requires a storage config of 128K sized blocks, general use dictates 64K. Speed is adversely effected if you get this wrong…but guess what the unchangeable hardware based RAID systems are set at…64K, assuming most customers want max performance out of general use storage. SoftRAID asks you to select as you create volumes, maxing the performance built into the hardware.

7) Partition the outside half for stripes– A hard disk is written to from the outside toward the center. The disk is spinning at a constant speed, so it is obvious more recording area passes under the heads per revolution on the outside of the disk than on the area approaching the center. This has become less important as disk circumferences have been made drastically smaller over the years, but still make a difference in a 3.5” drive (much less so in 2.5”). When you are doing a stripe, make that partition on the beginning of each member drive, no more than half the drive. SoftRAID is required to do this trick too. On a 3 disk stripe, you will see 20-30% overall improvement.

8) Use half the drive – Programs and the system read and write fastest to physically contiguous storage. Limiting your use of a drive to about half its capacity insures the system is not at a loss for contiguous space, and does not fragment itself. About once a month, I do a full backup and restore of the library on the stripe, giving me a brute force compression of the file to the outside of the disks.

9) External Storage – OK, this requires definition of task for professional photography use. This requirement is met by three interlinked subsystems, all required for the serious professional. I am defining pro as someone who needs to go home after 8 hours to a real life, and cannot spend all their time obsessing about their systems. The systems must perform the tasks required in the time given or I submit they are not fit for professional use. For example, if a full system backup takes more time than a single overnight, you need a setup that can do that task and leave the gear free to operate when you arrive the next morning.

a. Storage subsystem #1 – Operational Performance – Simply put, as fast as your gear can go without hitting diminishing returns. For your current setup, that is a dual channel eSATA stripe. You will see a good 150Mb/sec all day long from this.

b. Storage subsystem #2 – Operational Protection – For me this involves a dual drive mirror system, with a third spare for offsite. The two mirrors, one primary, one secondary are mirroring the operational stripe. Once a day I swap one of these with the spare and the system will automatically sync the new drive to match the live mirror. I bring this drive offsite with me. Once a week I do an extra sync, and that drive goes to a safety deposit at my bank. If my stripe dies, I can still operate from a mirror at 90Mb/sec until a can rebuild the stripe. I can rebuild the 1.5TB stripe holding my 800GB library in about 6 hours.

c. Storage subsystem #3 – Archival Maintenance – Data storage methods all degrade over time. Only active maintenance will provide 100% health for your data. This requires a system that maintains multiple copies of the data, and verifies the drive mechanism health on an ongoing basis. It does not require performance, as it will not be used as primary operational storage, so FW800 is ok. I have used a DROBO for this without incident. It has alerted me to add a mechanism when growth is needed, and it will survive a drive failure. The FW800 DROBO runs at about 30MB/sec, so you do not want to use this for anything like primary storage. Also, don’t run more than 2 STORAGE devices on a FW800 bus, and don’t use any other type of devices (readers, cameras, etc.) on that bus if you are using it for storage. Trust me…or just play with Activity Monitor and see performance drop if you don’t.

10) I use 2 single eSata enclosures for my traveling 2.5” stripe. I also have a Infosafe Esata/usb Enclosure, about $90 from Amazon. This holds the 2 drives when I need an extra eSata port. Just make sure to leave the config at JBOD, letting SoftRAID do its thing. If you are so inclined, you could let the enclosure do a hardware stripe, and you will see the loss in performance I spoke about. Case is nice for travel, comes with power, and a carrying bag.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GKH2RM/ref=oxya_ohproduct

That is basically it….of course I always encourage experimentation and testing using Activity Monitor, and other commercially available Mac benchmarks like DiskTester, or the free AJA systems test.

All the companies like GTech, Wiebe, CalDigit, LaCie, etc. are really overpriced if you know what you are buying. These companies exist and do well, because most folks don’t know any better. They do not make drives, or do much of the tech work…that usually comes from rebranding components from the far east. I use enclosures made by RAIDon or Stardom, and drives from WD and Seagate. My main enclosure at the office for the MPB is the ST6600-5S-S2 5-Bay Hot-Swap eSATA Port Multiplier Hard Drive Enclosure by RAIDON, $279 from OWC. Extra trays are $30. I use three 1TB drives (about $90 each) for the 1.5TB stripe volume, and two 2TB drives (about $200) for the dual mirror, with two additional 2TB in trays and carrying cases for my offsite swap backups. This 5 disk rig is about $1000 complete…less than half what you would pay from the companies above. Since the drives are already SATA, there is very little circuitry, unlike FW or USB…so it is basically sheet metal, a power supply and a backplane with connectors.

Finally, the best customer service comes from buying the $99 yearly support at SoftRAID…they will give you better advice than any manufacturer by far.

Hope this clarifies rather than confuses…enjoy!

Sep 13, 2009 1:05 PM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

Kevin,

Truly outstanding response. Thanks so much. As Flatliner mentioned, one of the best on the internet that I have ever read.

I'm sorry to say that some of it is beyond my level of understanding, but it certainly gets me pointed down in the right direction. I'll need to research this further so that I can make some well informed decisions about how to go about setting up the right system for my needs. I'm not a professional photographer, but an avid enthusiast who is probably just as anal as anyone else about making sure that his/her work is well protected and safe. This entire thread probably contains some of the best responses that I've read anywhere on the internet. There is a ton of great stuff in here.

MK

Kevin, I'll be sure to read your post a few more times to try and get some better understanding of how I need to proceed.

Sep 13, 2009 1:18 PM in response to CalxOddity

Shuttleworth125 wrote:
We've got a 2.8GHz iMac, we run aperture with a managed library around 300GB on an external 1TB drive connected by Firewire 400 (actually it's USB now, SL killed the FW!!). The only time it's been slow was when the FW packed in after SL. We don't see the beachball and adjustments usually happen in a second or less.


Hmm. This is strange. Why do i keep getting these pageouts then? It's so frustrating: I LOVE Aperture, the way it works, the interface, the ease of use. But the current speed in which I can adjust images is terrible. Sometimes this beachbal keeps spinning for 20 seconds, just by making a little adjustment on the exposure slider.

Thanks to this forum I know it is possible for Aperture to run fast on my machine (iMac 24", 4GB RAM, 3.06GHz, 1TB (500GB free)). But how to achieve this? I think I'm gonna do a clean install of Snow Leopard and Aperture and rebuild all previews, let's hope that helps. I'm not gonna try 6GB RAM since its not supported by Apple.
Thanks for all the help here.

Message was edited by: melkbus

Sep 13, 2009 9:02 PM in response to melkbus

In my tests, as I said, with a decent size library Aperture running with 4GB will definitely generate pageouts. Activity Monitor shows the use building with access and editing, and the pageouts were there every time at 4GB. I am not suggesting you violate Apple's specs, just stating something I know to be true. My 2008 MBP will run fine with 6gb, even though Apple specified 4 as max. Not much risk to that though, all the 3rd party memory guys confidently sell a 6MB kit, it works fine. As I said, I don't know about the older 3.06 iMac memory.

The only way I found it did not regularly get to the pageout limit was to have a small library with jpg-sized files, and even at that it was within a few meg of paging out.

As far as FW400 operating a 300GB library full of common RAW files, like Nikon .NEF quickly...sorry, the bandwidth available on that FW400 bus will not support the data transfer rate required to look anything near fast...no measurements necessary. As an example NEFs from a Nikon D300 are 11-13MB, the bus is no more than 20MB/sec...that means best case image loading is almost a second apiece, assuming nothing else is happening on the bus, and that is not the case in Aperture...it is always generating Preview or Thumbnails or other tasks all of which draw from the already limited bandwidth.

Hate to burst a bubble, but with these file sizes and data rates the program could only be fast if the files are far fewer and/or much smaller.

Aperture runs great in the Apple store with the small demo library...but remember the iMac's internal SATA drive is 4-5 times faster than FW400.

I recommend using Activity Monitor, and other benchmarking software to measure your hardware capabilities, and see that Aperture is demanding as it works.

Download AJA System Test from http://www.aja.com/products/software/ . Select the volume you want to test in the Volume: pop-up menu, Select a File Size: from pop-up of 1.0 GB, and a Video Frame Size of DVCProHD 1080i60. Hit Start, and in a few moments you will have a pretty accurate Read & Write speed for that drive or array. Retest as you make changes, and see what makes real differences. Add a bunch of stuff to the FW bus and it will crawl, USB is so slow it is unusable..and nothing will be anywhere near the spec they publish...but it will be the real numbers you setup generates, and reality is the key here.

This way you eliminate conjecture and easily reject statements that can be proven by your own measurements to have no basis in fact.

Sep 14, 2009 3:24 PM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

I too appreciate your well pointed responses. However I still do not undertand how someone like myself, with 2 GB of RAM and no problems with Aperture up to the point before installing Snow Leopard can now all of a sudden have contiuous freeze ups, and have force quit Aperture everytime. I was working great before, and now Activity Monitor is through the roof... I'm in need of some major help. I only have a 96 GB library, MBP 2.16, 2GB. I've started to split my libraries too in an effort to help this issue, but I'm not sure if that's the solution. Do you think that the new 10.6.1 update may help anything?

Message was edited by: Tab Energy

Sep 14, 2009 9:15 PM in response to Tab Energy

Hi Tab,

Just for the heck of it I pulled the 4GB module out of my MBP 17. At 2GB, with normaI use I could generate pageouts almost at launch. Slapped the 4GB back in, with 6GB no pageouts, happy as a clam.

Smaller library size really has little bearing on overall performance, unless it is very small or full of jpgs, but those both defeat the concept of Aperture. I am using an 800GB library right now, and it is zippy for the most part. The slowest thing I can make it do is a new, uncached click on a Project containing say, 6000 NEFs. Browser takes probably 8-10 seconds to load, then it is fast as ****, because it is cached. That is not very typical, because I would have a bunch of albums off that project and would most likely be working in them. What are you using for disk storage, BTW?

I did notice something in the way I work at the office (90% full screen display on my 30", flipping through images with arrow keys) and the way I work on the road...20% full screen mostly in browser sorting and rating to be very different on the Activity Monitor. It took me probably 15 minutes of sorting and rating, full screening occasionally to hit pageouts. At the office I did it with 2 dozen or so "next clicks" in full screen.

The possible good news in your case is all vintages of MBP 17" built after June 2007 can use 6GB of RAM without a problem. Only the original MBP Core Duo (2GB, April 06) and the first Core 2 Duo (3GB Oct 06 to June 07) cannot go that high. Of course the latest unibody can take 8GB.

The 10.6.1 update may fix some things, but you do need 6GB to run Aperture without pageouts, that will not change.

Aperture slow, library too large?

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