Video Editing (PC vs Mac)

Hi Cober , beautiful city you have there, a personal favorite of mine.

First, Welcome to the Apple Discussions. 🙂

Second, with a post like that, it should be posted as a topic itself. Right now there's every chance that this topic will be buried and no one will answer you. Always best to start a new topic from the get go if it's going to be dissimilar to the original posters question.

So do you have the Quad 2.5 by any chance? Darn fine machine, still have one myself.
Yes, after years of dark clouds on the horizon, Apple has finally pulled the plug on PPCs. I got out only recently myself, though I still have the Quad. Performance-wise my Mac Pro is about 4-5 times faster than my quad. With fast drives and other things, it's even faster now. It's not a subtle performance shift either. Going from what you have now to a newer machine will have you stand up and take notice.

Best in line... that would be the 2.93 8 core. But though I have one myself, in retrospect and from the tests I've see since I bought this, the 8 core 2.66 is just a whisper slower overall and a much better buy than the 2.93. If I recall rightly, the 2.93 amounts to over an additional thousand dollars+. And for what one gets, it's really not worth it. The 2.6's are really fine machines.

New processors are out and some people here have installed them already. But not on Macs yet I believe. I could be wrong about that. Macs I don't think are that malleable yet.
If you can wait a couple years, maybe less, the next line up of Mac Pros should be even better than what is there now. And I find that hard to imagine after all these years, this Mac has met all my needs and will continue to do so for awhile. It's hard to think "better" when you're completely satisfied.

You should post a new question on the boards and you'll have a lot of people weighing in. There are a lot of opinions and options out there and you've come to the right place to get a sampling of them.
For instance, maybe you don't really need a tower, maybe an iMac would do fine. Perhaps the 08 MPs, which are great and reasonably priced, are something you want to look at. Maybe by buying a less expensive machine, the money you save can go to RAM and SSDs.

If you do buy a new machine, buy all stock and then buy RAM and other stuff elsewhere. Apple charges a premium for everything.

Do some research on just what the story is with Macs and Blu-Ray. People here will be able to tell you about it. If it's vitally important to you to have the capability to create, burn and view them, make sure you're covered first.

Hope to see you again here.

Steve

But wouldn't there be a RAM advantage? Windows, especially Vista, eats it all for itself. Anything less than 2GB for a Vista machine is worthless and its sweet spot, for basic apps, is 4GB. Some would dare say 8GB. (With Vista, having been there, I wouldn't bother with the 32-bit version either...)

That and OS X's interface feels far more responsive than Vista, which is sad as my Vista machine is a Q9650 with 8GB of DDR2-800 RAM at 4-4-4-10 timings, and an nVidia GTX260 w/768MB RAM overclocked with ease to be on par with a GTX280, running completely stable, with the CPU overclocked to 3.6GHz (400MHz FSB) and despite all that, a puny 2.93GHz dual core iMac with 4GB of DDR3 RAM can run rings around it -- and when DDR3 came out, benchmarks showed a mere 10% improvement. 10% is a pittance.

I know 64-bit Vista has some improvement with larger data files, and some benchmark analysts try to say Vista is better... but then, as OS X of the time (10.5.x) wasn't 64-bit, neither being CS4, the comparisons aren't entirely valid to begin with. Equal playing fields only. Indeed, that person demonstrating Vist'a purported superiority even laments on how much faster the Mac used to be. Again, invalid conditions set up an inherent bias. When CS5 comes out and both platforms are true 64-bit (SL makes that possible), we'll see where things are. I'm not convinced Vista really is faster. Even on a hyper system that's a predecessor to the i7 and Nehalem Xeon lines but was an enviable system for the longest time... Ubuntu ran GREAT on it... but Ubuntu won't do Adobe and likely never will. (there are other reasons, like hardware compatibility, that preclude me from going Linux anyway... everything DOES work with Mac...)

If I may add two more cents...

Considering what you want to do, it all could be done on either platform. But it depends on how much you want to spend on software. I'd imagine that overall software for a PC would be cheaper. However PCs regularly use Adobe apps like Premiere and AfterEffects, both top of the line apps, and expensive. You'd like Premiere. Great program. AE is a world in itself.

Macs sing on these programs and Apple has it's own line up of similar programs, all native. Final Cut Express might be all you need to do all you want to. http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/
It's a cool and mid priced range app that does quite a bit.

And for any app like this, the more pedal to the metal you can get, the better.

That I don't know.

As far as I can tell, what the OP wants to do is the Macs Meow. These machines are noted for their use in the film industry. But for the most part PCs do it just as well.

I'd like to see the OP get a Mac, but if that's going to cost him a huge sum and he can upgrade his machine for less with about the same results, then maybe that's the better way to go.

at hamtickle:

On a Macs side the essential software you would need is "MPEG Streamclip" and "Handbrake" for the cutting and/or transcoding process.

Now, be aware that ripping Bluray discs is very very illegal, so I hesitate to give any hints here on how to do it.

Your painstackingly slow transcoding is very likely due to inefficient software, as for a normal Core 2 Duo transcoding a 1080p Bluray file would stay around 5-10 frames/sec, that´s about 5 to 2.5 slower than the duration of the video itself - please, never forget: Transcoding is heavily dependant on the preferences you set with your specific software and chosen codec. It is NOT a point & shoot experience.

What is very clear from my perspective regarding your descriptive workload: You definitely DON´T need Final Cut or any other Pro NLE software package do rip/transcode recorded TV shows - that´s using a howitzer to hunt crows.

To anyone here: We need specific details on utilized hardware AND software, so we can give definite help for particular propblems, in your case: the hardware (computer, network and media boxes) software, and content.

He wants to edit, make cuts, transitions, and the like, if I get his gist. He needs a good program for that. FCE is good, I like Premiere a lot better.

I strongly disagree, as that would mean he needs to invest in a new Mac Pro and new Pro software, which is a huge pile of cash, just to get your homegrown edits going. If he just wants to cut adds from TS streams recorded off cable TV - he doesn´t need a pro level NLE and a Mac Pro for this, that´s ridiculous.

He has potential hardware at his hands. As a matter of fact, he might just need some better open source tools or may be buy Sony Vegas to get all his editing needs fulfilled, without throwing away all his precious hardware. H.264 based HD material stresses your hardware, true, but a fast Core 2 Duo is ok firsthand. And if it turns out too slow, he just might need to buy a Quad processor and pop it into his existing machine, maybe some additional RAM, which is far more rational then running out and buying new hardware when problems arise.

We need his facts. As he seems to record from cable TV and it its HD format, he has h.264 based TS files at his hands. After simple cutting out commercials and the like, they basically are ready to be burned for bluray playback via "Nero" or "Toast" or ready to transcode to the format he needs for his media player.

Actually here I see the core problem at the moment, because it doesn´t make much sense having high quality h.264 material and transcode it back to mpeg2. May be he just needs to change his media player/streaming device, so it supports h.264 and off goes any heavy hardware investment for unnecessary transcoding tornadoes.

Step by step we need to analyize and solve the problems of the posters here. If at the end that means they needs new software and hardware, be it Mac or PC, good, but it might just be a little less, too.

I do a lot of video editing

That was in the OP's first sentence.
We know obviously what he wants:

I am contemplating my options:
1. upgrade my windows machine with new cpu, board, memory, gpu etc) or
2. buy a mac... so I am guessing I would have to go mac pro to get the performance I want.

And while he says he uses freeware and an Adobe app to do what he's doing now, obviously they're not cutting the mustard.

To me it sounds like he is being challenged both by his hardware and his software. And ridiculous as it sounds, the two issues are addressed with, you guessed it, better hardware and better software.

No, you don´t: Up to date we don´t exactly know his workflow and specific usage of hardware/software. Some of his description could hint for bad/inadequate software, wrong usage patterns, slow or inadjusted hardware and the like. As long as this is not sorted out, you can´t possibly give advice on new purchases - which wouldn´t save him from bad experience all over again, if the culprit e.g. lies NOT within the hardware.

can´t possibly give advice on new purchases

Well, that's what he wanted and that's what we did. No one said he had to get a new machine, it was suggested a few times that he might want to upgrade his existing one if he wants to go that route.
His wants and needs sound very clear to me, he wants to record, edit, and publish video. Obviously he wouldn't be writing in if those things were going that well for him now.
Please read through the other replies that have been given, you seem to think you're suggesting a new approach.

hamtickle,

I am not certain that my response is going to be very helpful to you because I don't really do the kind of video stuff that you are doing. Nonetheless, here goes an attempt at answering your questions.

A Google search of the "Microsoft Recorded TV Show" format reveals that is is actually simply an mpeg file. You point out that on your current PC you have to transcode that to an editable format before taking these files into your NLE in order to strip out commercials, etc. While there is no question that Final Cut Pro can do all of that, I would not recommend spending the money for FCP (a part of Final Cut Studio) for that purpose. As someone else said in another replay, it is overkill for this job. Nor do I believe that the software available for this purpose, e.g. MPEG Streamclip or Handbrake (both of which I have and use) is any better than the software that you are using on your PC. The bottom line is that transcoding mpeg files and then re-encoding them to other formats for various devices IS going to take significant time on either a PC or a Mac Pro because you are going from one heavily compressed format to another, albeit through a less heavily compressed format.

There is no doubt that buying a new fast PC or an 8-core Mac Pro will speed up the job for you, but it is still going to take time even on the fastest machines of either platform currently available.

I have no experience with ripping Blu-ray disks, but even so I can tell you that what I said above for transcoding TV shows to other formats is going to be even more true for Blu-ray. It is highly compressed and even on the fastest machines is going to take some time.

I am certainly not trying to persuade you not to upgrade your PC or purchase a Mac Pro. That is a decision that only you can make, but I do want you to understand that while it will result in less time to do the kind of video work that you are doing, it is not going to be a panacea and you will still be spending a good deal of time doing these kinds of transcodes on either platform.

If I were in your shoes, I would try and find someone with a Mac Pro 8-core or even a Macbook Pro and someone with a new and fast PC, and I would take one of the TV programs that you have recently transcoded on your PC, and just see how long it takes to do the same thing on the newer machines. Then you will be in a position to better evaluate whether spending the money to either upgrade your PC or purchase a Mac Pro 8-core will be worth it to you.

Tom