Buffer, and buffer...

Pretty sure that's what I just said.

No, you said this, which doesn't make any sense:

It means, the tv is always trying to read the chapter it is writing when there is only one chapter.

The "writing" that occurs is the caching of the video data as it is reveived from the network and processed into a playable format. Once all of the data is received and cached, the writing stops. The function that plays the video reads from the cache, it doesn't do any writng. Furthermore, it doesn't read "chapters" per se, it reads chapter markers as part of the file data.

If there is a problem with one chapter videos as you claim, a possible explanation would be that it doesn't read the file correctly if the chapter end marker is at the end of the file, i.e., a bug in the ATV software.

capaho wrote:

It means, the tv is always trying to read the chapter it is writing when there is only one chapter.

Not entirely sure, but I think Winston's saying that as the datastream is being cached to hard drive it's also being concurrently read for playback,though I can't honestly see it makes any difference with reagrd to chapters/chapter markers. Concurrent read/writes will happen irrespective of whether or not it's the same/different chapters or indeed files.

Please clarify what you mean by 'disk cache' and 'processed into a playable format'.

I initially thought you were merely being pedantic, but now I'm not so certain.

Alley_Cat wrote:
Not entirely sure, but I think Winston's saying that as the datastream is being cached to hard drive it's also being concurrently read for playback

Yep, so it isn't too unclear after all.

though I can't honestly see it makes any difference with reagrd to chapters/chapter markers. Concurrent read/writes will happen irrespective of whether or not it's the same/different chapters or indeed files.

Not sure I understand it either but I have found there to be a performance hit when the tv is receiving data for the same chapter it is playing when the chapter is excessively long. I'm not sure it should be described as a bug though as I feel that the one chapter movie is a user error.

Not entirely sure, but I think Winston's saying that....

Therein lies the problem, you weren't sure, either. Winston's comment lacked the clarity I would expect from someone who clearly understood the process. He seemed to be saying that the ATV was getting stuck in a read/write loop on the chapter, which is hard to account for from a technical standpoint.

...I can't honestly see it makes any difference with reagrd to chapters/chapter markers.

It does, actually. Winston seemed to believe that the ATV was looping on a block of video we can describe as the "chapter." However, as I just stated, I believe that is unlikely.

If his hypothesis from observed behavior is correct, I would expect a more likely explanation would be that the chapter section is not being read correctly if there is a begin marker at the beginning of the file and an end marker at the end of the file with no other markers in between. In other words, the file markers are not being handled correctly (i.e., bug), which may cause the read process to hang, but that's not the same thing as being stuck in a read/write loop on a chapter.

Concurrent read/writes will happen irrespective of whether or not it's the same/different chapters or indeed files.

Of course, concurrent read/writes occur all the time in complex systems, but in the case of the cached file, the writing stops when the file data has been fully cached, and the process that reads the cache and plays the video is not the same process that receives the data stream from the network, processes it into playable video, and then caches it.

I think one of the biggest factors in streaming problems on the ATV is the fact that it has a 1GHz processor that handles both system processes as well as processing all of the video. It doesn't have an independent GPU. I suspect that streaming inconsistencies have more to do with the specifics of file types and encoding rather than network or other issues. If the processor gets bogged down, everything else gets bogged down.

Please clarify what you mean by 'disk cache' and 'processed into a playable format'.

Disk cache, as in storing data temporarily on the disk. Playable format, as in taking the stream of data packets from the network, stripping the networking protocols from them, and reassembling them into playable video data.

I initially thought you were merely being pedantic, but now I'm not so certain.

Being technically correct is not being pedantic. <Edited by Host>

...I can't honestly see it makes any difference with reagrd to chapters/chapter markers.

It does, actually........... However, as I just stated, I believe that is unlikely.

Don't follow that, sorry.

capaho wrote:

Please clarify what you mean by 'disk cache' and 'processed into a playable format'.

Disk cache, as in storing data temporarily on the disk.

No problems there then, we are both talking about writing data to the disk and not the disk buffer (only avoiding doubt), what about 'processed into a playable format'.

Being technically correct is not being pedantic

It is when you understand and imply that you don't.

Don't follow that, sorry.

Well, then, study it until you do. I'm fully confident that all of my answers to you on this issue will be incorporated into your answers to others soon enough.

capaho wrote:

Don't follow that, sorry.

Well, then, study it until you do.

'It does, but it's unlikely', I've thought about it for a while but am still none the wiser.

I'm fully confident that all of my answers to you on this issue will be incorporated into your answers to others soon enough.

I'm sure if they are helpful they will, I thought that was the purpose of these forums, I can post a footnote to credit you for the source of advice in such cases if you wish.

'It does, but it's unlikely', I've thought about it for a while but am still none the wiser.

I'm assuming that your misquote is the result of having misread the original statement. It's the part between "It does" and "it's unlikely" that provides the clarity, but you omitted that part.

"It does" because the distinction between chapters and data markers makes a difference. There are no chapters without data markers. Chapters are for humans, data markers enable computers to create visual representations of them for us.

"It's unlikely" because there is virtually no chance that the kind of read/write loop you described occurs. Having the read process hang because the software is mishandling the chapter markers is an entirely different scenario from a read/write loop, assuming that any of these assumptions are actually correct.

I didn't say the middle bit at all, so when that is removed, your sentence reads "it does but is unlikely".

What I said was.
When a movie has one chapter, the tv is writing and reading that chapter at the same time.

The tv writes to and reads from the drive most of the time in normal operation and indeed on a multiple chaptered movie there are times when it is reading and writing info from the same chapter, but when a movie is a one chapter movie (not a movie without chapters) it is doing this all the time.
What I was saying to the OP was that under these circumstances it has been noticed that the performance of playback and navigation deteriorates. I didn't say why I thought it did that, indeed I don't know, I didn't say anything about a loop.

Liu, we have gone off at a tangent here, the one chapter video may or may not be a cause of your problem, we have simply been sidetracked by our discussions.

I would say a one chapter video is user error, whether it was as a result of your conversion or of the creation of the original file. However mkv files imply that the files may have a murky background and murky backgrounds often produce dodgy files, which may or may not be the cause of your problem, but it certainly worth considering.

Do you have similar problems with other files from another source.

(Is your video a one chapter video or a no chapter video (refer to my description earlier and look at the chapter markers on the tv by pressing the down button on the remote while the video is playing)