I wanna buy a 13" MacBook Pro, but I'm not sure..?

in technical terms, knowing what those things mean i don't really know how best to explain it. all i can say really is the more money it costs the more (or i should really say better) specifications it has. maybe someone else on here can help a bit more with this but think about whether you need to be spending the extra money or not. i am also thinking about a macbook pro and wondered cos the sizes are small 2g ram with 160gb memory but my boyfriend has an old g4 powerbook and that still runs very well on the little spec it has (512 i think). at the end of the day i think 160gb is gonna be enough space for me cos even though i'm a photographer i never keep my photos online anyway, i always go straight to disk (unless i'm having probs with my hp like now and cant switch it on so cant get the pics i just uploaded lol).

yes the cosmetic side is important but u have to think first about whether it has everything you need. there are some good deals on pcs atm cos windows 7 is coming out, just think very carefully before you comitt to buy, whatever you get you want to last as long as it can

All that stuff means that you will have a fast, reliable machine with great graphics. That may sound
glib, but the questions your asking go beyond the basics of computer knowledge and probably won't be addressed by most people on these forums (I hope I'm wrong and someone will spent the time to educate you). As for the Ram, more is always better. However, Apple Ram is twice as expensive as say, Kingston-Crucial or Ramjet, all of whom make Ram to meet Apple specs. An Apple computer is more than pretty, they are the best thing made.

Message was edited by: macbig

If you don't know what these terms mean then they don't mean anything to you. In other words, they should not have anything to do with your decision of what machine to buy. If you were a hard core power user you would know what specs you need. If you are not that power user than the minimum of specs will be more than plenty.

Apple doesn't sell stripped down cut rate low end computers. You don't have to concern yourself whether the specs are good enough if you don't know what they mean.

Having said that, maybe you can tell me how one finds "sexy" in a piece of electronic hardware? Maybe I am just too old to get turned on by a machine. 😉

I, too, thought I'd my life would be rosier with a move from PC to Mac. I'm afraid I'm getting jaded after having "issues" with my MBP since I purchased in Nov 2008 but here are some observations. Some are more technical in nature.

1. What I have come to know of my MBP does not warrant the price differential with a comparable WinTel laptop (but there sure are some junky cheapo plastic Wintel laptops out there).

2. The components (e.g. optical drive, wireless) in my MBP offer poorer performance than a 8 year old IBM Thinkpad (error correction on scratchy disks) and a 3 year old Toshiba Celeron Satellite (connecting through walls), respectively. I've had hardware issues from the day I purchased. Some of these differences are hard to detect prior to purchase, unfortunately.

3. The OS performance, particularly its management of dual-core processors and, apparently virtual memory, is worse than Win XP, particularly if you like doing many things at once. (This is a gut-feel kind of thing -- how often do I lack responsiveness on the Mac vs XP. Why do both processors shut down momentarily (i.e. music stops playing) when the screen blanks out (screen saver)?)

4. The Genius Bar is nice if you have a lot of questions to ask and it is convenient to get to; if you have to travel any great distance, the novelty will get old very fast. You get only 3 months of phone support which, for me, is more useful. Personally, I prefer h/w and s/w which one doesn't need to ask so many questions about. It is handy though when you've got a problem to talk to someone in person; it is harder for them to be unhelpful when they are staring you in the face.

5. Software updates are easy on the MAc as you say. My 2002 Thinkpad had similarly easy updates. Don't know what Lenovo has currently.

6. Yes, the built-in cam can be fun and even useful.

7. As to your questions re the specs:

- processor speed likely won't be noticed, given choices available in a particular model, except if you are doing processor-intensive tasks like still or motion video editing, manipulating massive databases or spreadsheets. Then the speed can make a difference because all that processing is just a bunch (billions) of math equations that need to be solved. The faster processors solve them faster.

- The front-side bus stuff I basically ignore and don't know that much about but it and other bus stats are related to how fast data (bits and bytes) can be transmitted between various components in your system. Gamers (I think) benefit from fast bus speeds (video data) as do systems that read/write massive amounts of data to/from disk or RAM.

- you likely haven't priced 8GB memory if you are asking about it. 2GB in a Mac is not useful, get 4GB but save yourself money and buy it from a source other than Apple. It's an easy DIY upgrade.

- 2,000 songs is nothing (except a dent in the bank account if it's all iTunes). But given hard drive prices these days, I'd suggest a 320GB (maybe 250GB) minimum. There's not much difference in cost unless you go to 500GB which you likely won't need for a couple of years at which time they'll be much cheaper and standard equipment. Again, look away from Apple for the larger hard drives (they charge a lot for the benefit of shopping in their lovely stores and to pay for the colourful T-shirts).

- don't forget to also buy a backup (external) drive if you don't have one. It would be a shame to have a drive crash on you without a backup.

Hope this is useful.

macnoo wrote:

- don't forget to also buy a backup (external) drive if you don't have one. It would be a shame to have a drive crash on you without a backup.

If you take no other piece of advice, take this one, PC or Mac!

Greetings, Navygirl, welcome to Apple!

Well, for one..I've always wanted a Mac, any Apple product really, but they're so expensive.

Actually, most people save money by buying Macs. There's an old saying "Penny-wise, Pound (dollar) foolish" which means people who compare items and buy the cheapest one save money in that purchase, but often find that the cheap thing breaks down fast, and have to buy the thing over and over again, losing more money in the long run then they saved. Macs save you money in a lot of ways.

First, they last longer than most other laptops. I still see "Clamshell" Macs in use which are eleven years old! If you buy a Mac Laptop, you can expect to use it for a good 4-5 years before you might feel the need to get another. So cut the cost in half because you're saving having to buy a new laptop in two years. Then consider that they retain their resale value. You can actually sell the old Pro and get some money for it toward a new one. So, you save money that way.

Next, you won't have to buy virus protection. So you save money that way, and you won't have to buy a lot of software that you often have to buy with PCs because Mac comes with almost all the software you need bundled in. That includes photo, video and music software. You can also run the PC programs you have on the Mac if you wish. So you have two-in-one computers. So, again, you've saved money. As you can see, if you were to add all these things together, you might well find that the Mac was a much better deal than even dirt cheap laptops, because dirt cheap laptops are no-frills laptops--they seem cheap, but after you've bought all the stuff you need for them, you've spent almost as much as you might have on a fully equipped Apple. And you get even more with the Apple then just the extras you'd have to buy if you went cheap.

As you said, you've got great customer support and 1 year warranty (unless you buy Apple care which gives you 3 years, and constant phone support). Again, you save money because problems will get fixed without incurring repair costs (obviously, if you spill coffee on the machine, all bets are off). There's also an element here of you-get-what-you-pay-for, which means that you'll get good quality screen, aluminum body, built-in camera, illuminated keyboard, sound system, long-life battery, even the plug which pops out if you pull it so you don't bring the computer crashing to the floor. So while the computer may be pricy, you are getting your money's worth.

And yes, the Macbook is very good for using daily. I recently had to remind a new Macbook user that she need never turn off the computer or quit programs. She only need close the lid and go. Open the lid and start up again. This is where you'll save the most money. You'll be more productive, get more done and that, again, saves you money. In short, by and large, Mac Laptops are good investments.

You don't have to get the most expensive machine, either. 2.23GHz is fine for you, as is 256MB. You will probably want 4-8GB RAM (memory) as that keeps things speedy and allows you to have a lot of programs running. Videos and music do take up room on a laptop and that should inform you as to how many MG of harddrive you might need. Better to have, as recommended, a back-up drive for finished videos. That will keep them from taking up room on the laptop. You may also be able to find refurbished pros and used pros at a discount if you still don't want to pay full price.

Does this help you with your decision?

Well I went from PC to Mac and love it =)

"1066MHz frontside bus"
This is say the road on which the data gets travelled on the higher the number the more data that can be transported at once, pretty much a 2 lane road of cars vs a 4 lane highway u get my point 🙂

"2.23 and 2.56GHz"
This is the speed in which the cars travel on that road, so all the cars being like a ferrari vs Veyron :P. Its the speed in which that cars get to A and B

"3MB shared L2 cache"
Your computer had onboard RAM which is what data is stored in before it gets processed (Processor), when the data travelles to the CPU it enters the Cache which is practicly a really small onboard RAM for the CPU basicly a small queing system. The higher the number the more that can be stored in the Processor itself.

"256MB of DDR3 SDRAM"
The RAM inside the Graphics card which produces the images, DDR3 represents Dual Data Rate x 3 so yeah its faster than the rest atm. 256MB is the amount thats stored before its processed.

"1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM"
This again like above with the CPU its the Speed of the communication between the RAM and the graphics Processor (GPU).

"Should I upgrade to the 8GB memory instead of the retail 2GB or 4GB?"
Well the amount that is stored in the RAM before processed, so yeah more is better 🙂 since the mac operating system has built in 64-bit computing in every OS the RAM amount can be higher and pushed further 🙂

I think you should go for it 🙂

I will state upfront I am a current Windows user and while I'm interested in purchasing a Mac - I'm struggling with justifying the added cost. I stumbled on this thread hoping to get more clarity and information about what I'm missing by staying with Windows.

I see JE13's post and I can't help but ask a few questions - after reading this post, perhaps a Mac just isn't geared for me?

JE13 wrote:
First, they last longer than most other laptops. I still see "Clamshell" Macs in use which are eleven years old! If you buy a Mac Laptop, you can expect to use it for a good 4-5 years before you might feel the need to get another. So cut the cost in half because you're saving having to buy a new laptop in two years. Then consider that they retain their resale value. You can actually sell the old Pro and get some money for it toward a new one. So, you save money that way.

I have a 6 year old Windows desktop that works fine so I'm not forced into buying a new one. I'm just interested in some of the new technology (HDMI, webcam, bluetooth, SATA, etc).

This reasoning around why a Mac costs me less doesn't resonate with me.

JE13 wrote:
Next, you won't have to buy virus protection. So you save money that way, and you won't have to buy a lot of software that you often have to buy with PCs because Mac comes with almost all the software you need bundled in. That includes photo, video and music software. You can also run the PC programs you have on the Mac if you wish. So you have two-in-one computers. So, again, you've saved money. As you can see, if you were to add all these things together, you might well find that the Mac was a much better deal than even dirt cheap laptops, because dirt cheap laptops are no-frills laptops--they seem cheap, but after you've bought all the stuff you need for them, you've spent almost as much as you might have on a fully equipped Apple. And you get even more with the Apple then just the extras you'd have to buy if you went cheap.

If I was to buy a Windows laptop today, I leverage free A/V software (AVG) and it comes with MS Office suite. If I was to purchase a Mac, is there additional costs associated with purchasing MS Office?

This reasoning around why a Mac costs me less doesn't resonate with me (kinda sounds like it will cost more?).

JE13 wrote:
As you said, you've got great customer support and 1 year warranty (unless you buy Apple care which gives you 3 years, and constant phone support). Again, you save money because problems will get fixed without incurring repair costs (obviously, if you spill coffee on the machine, all bets are off). There's also an element here of you-get-what-you-pay-for, which means that you'll get good quality screen, aluminum body, built-in camera, illuminated keyboard, sound system, long-life battery, even the plug which pops out if you pull it so you don't bring the computer crashing to the floor. So while the computer may be pricy, you are getting your money's worth.

Don't Windows laptops comes with a 1-year warranty, too? Granted, I can pay for extended support just like I can with a Mac, too.

Aside from the plug that pops out if you pull it and the aluminum body, the other specifications come with a Windows laptop, too.

This reasoning around why a Mac costs me less doesn't resonate with me.

JE13 wrote:
And yes, the Macbook is very good for using daily. I recently had to remind a new Macbook user that she need never turn off the computer or quit programs. She only need close the lid and go. Open the lid and start up again. This is where you'll save the most money. You'll be more productive, get more done and that, again, saves you money. In short, by and large, Mac Laptops are good investments.

Don't Windows laptops have the same features? My work laptop that runs windows does this and while I can't close the lid on my desktop (haha), I can set it to hibernate and it will come back on with my programs, too.

This reasoning around why a Mac costs me less doesn't resonate with me.

JE13 wrote:
You don't have to get the most expensive machine, either. 2.23GHz is fine for you, as is 256MB. You will probably want 4-8GB RAM (memory) as that keeps things speedy and allows you to have a lot of programs running. Videos and music do take up room on a laptop and that should inform you as to how many MG of harddrive you might need. Better to have, as recommended, a back-up drive for finished videos. That will keep them from taking up room on the laptop. You may also be able to find refurbished pros and used pros at a discount if you still don't want to pay full price.

The specifications I would be buying will cost me more, but be less then that of what I would see on a Windows machine.

This reasoning around why a Mac costs me less doesn't resonate with me.

Does this help you with your decision?

Not really. Aside from being aesthetically pleasing, I'm still not certain how to justify buying a MacBook Pro which will cost me nearly double the amount of money to do the same thinks a Windows laptop can do.

What am I missing? The Mac laptops are very nice, but I can't logically conclude I should buy one since I can't grasp what I'm getting for the extra money.

Message was edited by: XtremeSki2001

Message was edited by: XtremeSki2001

XtremSki: Sounds like you've decided not to buy a Mac. That's OK with us. We're glad we did, but you should use whatever makes you happy.

Every so often, we see a post here from someone who switched from a Windows box to a Mac with grave misgivings about it, and who hasn't been able to get past his preconceptions and enjoy the Mac. We're glad you won't be one of those.

Message was edited by: eww

Well, first X, I was primarily discussing the reasoning of buying a computer that's dirt cheap vs. a mac. Comparisons in price are often about very cheap, pared-down laptops vs. a new, top-of-the-line Mac, not buying a new PC that is equal in bells and whistles to the Mac. Next, I'm glad your machine is lasting you. I didn't mean to imply that all PC's fail to last. Some are built to last and last and keep their resale value, too, but there are too many of the pared down ones that are dead within two years, especially when the software changes and demands that the computers have the right hardware to keep up. Macs do have a good reputation for lasting even though radical changes in software.

Next, let us keep in mind that Navy is talking about buying a brand new Pro. There is the Macbook laptop and plenty of used/refurbished Pros that would cost less and, yes, would be comparable in price to PC computers of equal quality.

As for MS Office, you are quite right that Mac isn't going to bundle every program you could ever want or need with its computer. There are free programs that one can download from the internet and use on Mac in place of Office, or you can keep the MS office you have and use it on the Mac by running Windows, but if Office is what you want, and you want it for the Mac, then it must be purchased. I merely pointed out that the programs Navygirl might want came with the Mac and she wouldn't have to pay extra for them. Her focus was on making movies and music.

As for Apple support vs. Windows support...Apple has the highest rating when it comes to customer support of any computer company. Consumer Reports indicate that wait times are shorter, personnel friendly and issues usually resolved quickly and easily. If you don't feel that's worth paying extra, I understand. It's like whether dealing with viruses are a big deal to you or not. We all decide what is worth or not worth more money.

Don't Windows laptops have the same features? My work laptop that runs windows does this and while I can't close the lid on my desktop (haha), I can set it to hibernate and it will come back on with my programs, too.

Don't ask me. Every other Windows user I know asks about shutting down the computer rather than closing the lid. I've no idea why they're so misinformed.

If nothing Apple can offer resonates with you, then it doesn't resonate. I remember, for example, that Apple used to make all it's laptops in the U.S., giving people jobs. That, by the way, was one of the things that used to resonate most with me, but, alas, did not resonate enough with consumers to keep Apple from outsourcing its product in order to lower prices and compete. I, personally, am glad that Apple computers now resonate with enough consumers, in spite of their higher prices, that the company isn't likely to make more such compromises. Which is to say, sometimes when you pay more, it's for things that matter a lot even if they're not evident, to your eyes, in the product.

Xreme,

Your right Apple computers are priced higher than most others, however take look at the configuration of the Macbook Pro vs any other manufacture. Compare the specifications dollar for dollar and the MBP will still be more expensive in most cases, but not by much.

I configured a Dell Precision Workstation M4400 laptop with these specification:

My System Details
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo P8600 (2.40GHz, 3M L2 Cache, 1066MHz FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Business Bonus-Windows XP Professional downgrade
McAfee® Total Protection for Small Business, 15 Month
15.4” UltraSharp™ WXGA+ (1440x900) LED Display
3 Year ProSupport for End User Limited Warranty and 3 Year NBD On-Site Service
NVIDIA Quadro FX 770M, 512MB
4.0GB, DDR2-800 SDRAM, 2 DIMMS
250GB Hard Drive, 5400 RPM
8X DVD+/-RW w/Roxio and Cyberlink Power DVD™
9 Cell Battery
Dell Wireless™ 1510 802.11a/g/n Draft Mini Card
Dell Wireless® 370 Bluetooth Module
Internal English Backlit Keyboard
Internal Swipe Fingerprint Reader
Integrated webcam with microphone
Resource DVD - Contains Diagnostics and Drivers
No Modem
My Accessories
130W 3P, A/C Adapter
No Intel® vPro™ Secure Advanced Hardware Enabled Systems Management
My Services & Warranties
No Onsite System Setup
Also Included
Black Wide Screen WXGA+ LCD Panel w/ Integrated Camera and Microphone
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor
Windows 7 Upgrade Web Site
Vista Premium Label

A NEW Dell Precision Workstation M4400 laptop configured for $1,818 at a discounted price (normally $2,251) compared to the 15.4" 2.53GHz MBP $1,699.00 plus 3 years of AppleCare $349 = $2,048

I'd much rather spend an extra $230, and get the MBP.

As a note: you would get 2X video RAM, Vista Premium Label, and finger reader in the Dell laptop. The MBP has a faster processor, faster RAM, aluminum body construction, SD card slot, and comes with iLife09 suite.

Go for the MBP, it's just a better laptop computer. With Apple you get better support, better OS, better virus protection, and higher resale value.

Yeah they are. You pay extra but then think about the design of the laptops their beautiful. No huge grills for the overly worked PC ventilation. The operating system is just bliss, Apple stated that their new OS will work on any Mac produced. When vista could hardly work smoothly on an average XP computer.

They think of the simplicity, MagSafe power cord I thought yeah its cool but will it ever happen, as yes it did happen and i was happy i had MagSafe. LED screens, Touch gestures. I was using a pc the other say and tried to use Expose :P

Plus Ive had my mac for about nearly a year and it has never locked up on me.

Please if u ever get the change take a walk into an Apple store u feel it !

xo NavyGirl: I bought my first Mac a month ago and, as you, I had some doubts before switching to the Mac world so I'll share my experience with you and I hope this will help you in making the best decision.

I've always been curious about the Mac world and I was about to buy my first one in 2007. It was quite expensive, so I ended up buying a toshiba laptop to save some money, also because I needed Linux for work, so I would have had the apple hardware without their fantastic operating system. It wasn't obviously the best choice.
If you're planning to install Windows 7 or Linux on your next computer then you'd rather buy a PC.

Now, for work, I use my agency's laptop. I wanted to buy another laptop just for home and this time Mac seemed to be the best choice, for these reasons:

- Best hardware: the unibody chassis is really phenomenal. This laptop has the best keyboard I ever had on a laptop, the display is stunning, I'm not bothered by any fans, the trackpad is revolutionary
- Best OS: I've always been a Linux fan but OS X is stable, fast and easy to use, together with a beautiful "attire". It's perfect for having fun and working at the same time 🙂
- Very good performances: I bought the "basic" model, with just 2GB of RAM. I don't think I need an upgrade, because it's very fast. Maybe in the future I'll siwth to an SSD, but OS X is not so hungry of system memory, as far as I've experienced.

I wouldn't upgrade to 8GB of ram. Maybe if you're working with many applications at the same time it is a good idea to have 4GB, but 8GB are quite expensive and I don't think you actually need so much memory.
I'd choose the 2.23 GHz cpu, I think it's more than enough for everyday use 🙂

For what concern the price I have to agree with the guy who wrote that old saying "penny wise". In Italy we have a very similar saying and I strongly agree with it. Macbook is worth the price, believe me 🙂

I don't know, our 31/2 year old work PC's are barely limping along, and the HP laptops are a nightmare, needing constant support from tech. Glad your experience is different. I used pc's personally until a few years, wouldn't go back for what I do.

I have converted to Mac this year. I'll skip the long monologue about how much more esthetically pleasing the Mac experience is. Here is my response to "expensive" comment.

- No need for anti-virus
- Free photo management software
- Free video management software
- Free DVD creation software
- Free pdf creation software (not like a full blown Adobe Writer, but does all I need to do)
- No problems (for me) finding wireless connections, printers etc.
- A coolest assortment of accessories for music funs - e.g., AirportExpress (I guess this is where savings stop 😉

Snow Leopard is not perfect, but I did not have any serious problems with it. Not going back to Windows for sure ever.

-Dima