14 Replies Latest reply: Oct 27, 2009 6:10 PM by mysie
MRSJGD Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
I have recently installed Snow Leopard 10.6.1 to find it clashes with fonts in Quark. I am now reverting to Leopard!
I have installed system disc and am now retrieving a full system backup from my Time Machine from a few days ago.. (PRE Snow Leopard)
It's been whirring away for 8 hours... (it said 50ish hours to retrieve initially) it NOW says 48 hours are left. Is this normal and should I just sit it out as it is still chugging away?
Hoping for some reassurance or some advice on what to do next...
Thanks

iMAC 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM, Mac OS X (10.6.1)
  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,715 points)
    Under normal circumstances, a full restore should take a bit less time than a full backup of the same data over the same hardware.

    Do you remember how long your first full backup took, and roughly how much was on your system then? If so, adjust for how much more is on your system now.

    It does, of course, depend largely on how much data there is, but also the type and speed of your connection. If you're doing this wirelessly, from a Time Capsule or USB drive attached to an Airport Extreme, it will be quite lengthy. If there's interference, it will be much, much longer, so try to get your Mac as close to the TC or AEBS as possible, and turn off anything that might produce interference. Connected via an Ethernet cable, considerably faster; directly connected via USB or FireWire 400, faster yet; FireWire 800 even faster.

    Don't put a great deal of stock in the initial estimate. The speed will vary considerably as the restore proceeds, just as a large backup does. Even a small system has several hundred thousand files and folders, so there's a lot to be done.

    If you want to monitor the installation, select Window, then +Show Log+ and +Show All logs+ from the menubar. (It may take a few moments for your Mac to respond to those selections.)

    In my case, with a relatively-small backup of about 30 gb, I get about 12 gb/hour wirelessly; 21 gb/hour via an Ethernet cable; and 40 gb/hour via direct connection with USB or F/W 400. Your mileage may vary, of course.
  • MRSJGD Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thank you for your response. After 47 hours the restoration is complete and all SEEMS well again! Phew!
    Here are the facts:
    There was 167GB of info inc full system restoration.
    I had everything backed up on a Time Machine connected wirelessly sat right next to my mac.
    The initial prediction was 50 hours (not far off)... after the first 10 hours the progress bar showed that 48 hours were still left which was a worry. This soon picked up and each actual hour showed that 1 hour 30 minutes had progressed.
    I think this is now a useful post which would have helped to me to have slept better considering that first 10 hours. Patience is a virtue!
  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,715 points)
    MRSJGD wrote:
    Thank you for your response. After 47 hours the restoration is complete and all SEEMS well again! Phew!


    Yay!

    Here are the facts:
    There was 167GB of info inc full system restoration.
    I had everything backed up on a Time Machine connected wirelessly sat right next to my mac.
    The initial prediction was 50 hours (not far off)... after the first 10 hours the progress bar showed that 48 hours were still left which was a worry. This soon picked up and each actual hour showed that 1 hour 30 minutes had progressed.
    I think this is now a useful post which would have helped to me to have slept better considering that first 10 hours. Patience is a virtue!


    Indeed. But that's still ridiculously slow. It is, of course, very hard to predict, but something more like 16 hours would be the most I'd expect.

    As you may know, your next TM backup will most likely be a full one; yes, all that stuff is considered changed and will be backed-up again. If it does, it may be extremely slow, also (again, a very rough estimate would be 16 hours). If you can connect via an Ethernet cable, it should be considerably faster, very roughly on the order of 9 or 10 hours).

    Something is wrong, somewhere, and it's unlikely to get better.

    I'm assuming this is a Time Capsule, not a USB drive attached to an Airport, correct?

    When you do "bite the bullet" and do the backup, some clues may be lurking in your logs, so monitor it either with the Time Machine Buddy widget or the Console app, per #A1 of the Time Machine - Troubleshooting *User Tip* at the top of this forum.

    You might want to try the things in #D2 of that Tip, also.
  • MRSJGD Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    HI
    Yes it is a Time Capsule.. and I realise now (it's always afterwards isn't it?) that connection via ethernet would've been better. I've downloaded the Time Buddy Widget and will have a look.
    Thanks again
    MRSJGD
  • mysie Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Since I found this through Google searching for answers myself, I thought I would update the topic with my current experience:

    Decided to use Time Machine to back up my computer (2-3 hours I think?), so I could wipe the drive and do a clean install. The OS clean install took about 18 hours (after quoting 40 hours).

    So when the restart dialog came up, I chose to use Time Machine to move everything back over. It took a few minutes to calculate, then said it would take 19 hours and five minutes.

    That was 8 hours ago. It still says 19 hours and 5 minutes, and the progress bar hasn't budged a mm.

    The backup is on an external hard drive, right next to my iMac, using USB 2.0 (or so the HD's cardboard box tells me). Knowing that there is a difference between USB, USB 2, and Firewire - and not knowing actually how they are different - is about the extent of my technical expertise. Sounds like ethernet would have been the better choice, but I have no idea how I would have done that.

    Anyone have an opinion on when I should stop this process, assume my data on the backup was the problem with the computer the whole time, and move on with my life but without my data?
  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,715 points)
    mysie wrote:
    . . .
    Decided to use Time Machine to back up my computer (2-3 hours I think?), so I could wipe the drive and do a clean install.


    Why? What kind of trouble were you having? (If there's a hardware problem of some sort, this isn't going to help.)

    The OS clean install took about 18 hours (after quoting 40 hours).


    Do you mean it took 18 hours just to Erase and Install (there is no "clean install") Leopard? If so, you should stop right there. That's ridiculous. Something is very wrong with your Mac. (Normal for Snow Leopard is in the neighborhood of 45 minutes; Leopard is longer, as I recall, but not anything remotely like that).

    So when the restart dialog came up, I chose to use Time Machine to move everything back over. It took a few minutes to calculate, then said it would take 19 hours and five minutes.


    Do you mean when you were asked if you already have a Mac, and wanted to transfer your data?
    Without some idea of how much data you have (30 gb? 1 tb?), there's no telling whether that's sensible.

    Anyone have an opinion on when I should stop this process


    If it took 18 hours to +Erase and Install,+ stop it Now.

    It sounds like your internal HD is failing. Disconnect everything except your keyboard and mouse.

    Find the second disc that came with your Mac. It's probably labelled +Applications Install DVD+ and has instructions on it (in very tiny type) telling you how to run the +Apple Hardware Test+ (mine says boot up while holding the "D" key).

    That will do a relatively fast and cursory check of your memory, hard drive, etc., and I suspect will tell you there's trouble with the hard drive.

    Report back with your results.

    (Whether your backups were corrupted by whatever's wrong is hard to tell, but it's likely you'll be able to recover most, or all, of your data. So disconnect that drive until you get your Mac sorted out.)
  • mysie Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Pondini wrote:
    mysie wrote:
    . . .
    Decided to use Time Machine to back up my computer (2-3 hours I think?), so I could wipe the drive and do a clean install.


    Why? What kind of trouble were you having? (If there's a hardware problem of some sort, this isn't going to help.)


    The computer has become more and more buggy over the past 6 mo. or so, to the point that almost every action I took in any application, even just the finder to check the date!, resulted in "beach ball". Sometimes the programs would unstick, but usually they did not - trying to get the Force Quit menu would then make the finder stall if it wasn't already stalled. In the rare event I was able to shut down normally (instead of being forced to power down), start up was just as slow as when it was forced - anywhere between 3-20 minutes, with no pattern or reason why. I looked online for clues, used Disk Utility (took a few hours itself, considered an online memory test suggestion I found online, but the idea of going through the process of turning my machine back on, waiting for it to load, waiting for it to connect to the internet, load a browser, get to the site, start the test - each would have been its own beachball. I decided it was time for the last resort option, reinstall.

    The OS clean install took about 18 hours (after quoting 40 hours).


    Do you mean it took 18 hours just to Erase and Install (there is no "clean install") Leopard? If so, you should stop right there. That's ridiculous. Something is very wrong with your Mac. (Normal for Snow Leopard is in the neighborhood of 45 minutes; Leopard is longer, as I recall, but not anything remotely like that).


    Funny story: I had begun the archive/install process, when I found another disk that I thought had a more recent OS on it, so I decided to quit the process and start over again with that disk. I knew this was risky, but my data was backed up elsewhere, so oh well. It took a few minutes for the window popped up asking if I was sure, warning my computer might not startup again. I foolishly chose yes. As predicted, the computer wouldn't start again. I had to start up from the disk (can't remember which one now). At that point, "archive and install" was not an option - it thought my machine had nothing on it, so the only option was to just install, not reinstall. One disk was freestanding Leopard, the other was my iMac install disk - but now I can't remember which one I found 2nd, and which one I used for the final install.

    So when the restart dialog came up, I chose to use Time Machine to move everything back over. It took a few minutes to calculate, then said it would take 19 hours and five minutes.


    Do you mean when you were asked if you already have a Mac, and wanted to transfer your data?
    Without some idea of how much data you have (30 gb? 1 tb?), there's no telling whether that's sensible.


    It asked me for a language preference, then maybe one other question, and then asked me if I had a Time Machine backup and did I want to use it. I said yes, it said plug in the external drive now, I did, and away it went. I have about 120GB of data, mostly mp3s and photos. I deleted all my gaming software earlier in the week and some old OS 9 apps that somehow came over in a previous migration, this made my hard drive's finder window look sleeker, but helped nothing.

    Anyone have an opinion on when I should stop this process


    If it took 18 hours to +Erase and Install,+ stop it Now.

    It sounds like your internal HD is failing. Disconnect everything except your keyboard and mouse.

    Find the second disc that came with your Mac. It's probably labelled +Applications Install DVD+ and has instructions on it (in very tiny type) telling you how to run the +Apple Hardware Test+ (mine says boot up while holding the "D" key).

    That will do a relatively fast and cursory check of your memory, hard drive, etc., and I suspect will tell you there's trouble with the hard drive.

    Report back with your results.

    (Whether your backups were corrupted by whatever's wrong is hard to tell, but it's likely you'll be able to recover most, or all, of your data. So disconnect that drive until you get your Mac sorted out.)


    Next funny story: I can only find a Disk 1 for my iMac. The disk had a Disk Utility, which turned out to be the same one program I used to verify/repair the drive and verify/repair permissions - another set of "everything is ok". I can't recall if there was an Apple Hardware Test on that disk. Is there a way to get that program online?

    I'll go try to quit the Time Machine now and see what's on that disk.

    ps: Because the issue was freezing/stalling, I never considered the hardware, so I apologize for all the idiotic choices I made in the process. No public flogging is necessary, as I am already in the process of doing that myself.
  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,715 points)
    mysie wrote:
    . . .
    One disk was freestanding Leopard, the other was my iMac install disk - but now I can't remember which one I found 2nd, and which one I used for the final install.


    But the question is, did you actually do an +Erase and Install?+

    Without the second disc, you can't run the Apple Hardware Test, and you probably can't borrow one as they are, of course, hardware-specific. You can (and should) get a new one from AppleCare (they'll probably charge a nominal fee), but that will, of course, take a few days at best. You'll need your serial number, then call (800-275-2273).

    For now, boot up from your Leopard Install disc. I'm not sure why you have two. You can use the one that came with your Mac (gray), if you're sure it's the one that came with your Mac -- it's hardware-specific, too.

    You can also use a full Retail Leopard disc (black), unless it's a version prior to the version that came with your Mac.

    After the Language screen, select Utilities then +Disk Utility+ and, since we really don't know what's on your HD, and whether it's even working well, do a complete erase. Click +Security Option,+ then +Zero Out Disk,+ then confirm by clicking Erase.

    That's going to take a while, but will remove all traces of whatever was on the disk, and by writing zeros everywhere, may tell you whether the drive is ok.

    If it fails, make an appointment at the Genius Bar of your local Apple Store; you almost certainly need a new HD.

    If it succeeds, the drive may be ok. Then Install Leopard.

    If it takes many hours, something is wrong; could be the HD, could be something else. Without an OS on it, you can't do much more, so do the Genius Bar thing.

    If it succeeds, do just what you did before (that's the +Setup Assistant,+ by the way) and let it transfer your data. Be sure all the connections are tight, and don't plug your external HD in to the USB port on your keyboard (it may be USB 1.0). That should take somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-4 hours (the initial estimate may be much higher).
  • mysie Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    OK, I've managed to quit the Time Machine, restart, and run Apple Hardware Test. (Turns out the Test is on Disk 1!) I did the Extended Test, took about 4.5 minutes, and said everything looked good.

    Restarted the computer again and nosed around. It certainly looks brand new/empty, but I see your point. The external drive appears to have saved all my backup just fine. And the computer has managed to keep its preference for beachballing and non-responding.

    Next I'll try the "Zero Out Disk" option you suggested. FYI, my 2 Leopard disks are really: 1 iMac install disk and 1 retail OsX Leopard Install DVD.

    Thanks for all the help!
  • mysie Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    When I didn't see anything about a "Zero Out Disk" option, I chose to run Erase and Install. I knew I'd chosen wrong once I restarted the computer after the install and saw that my hard drive had the same name as before the erase. I decided to see if the problem had been fixed. After about an hour of no problems, I ran Software Updater, and tried to install the newest versions of Quicktime, Airport, and OS X "combined" update. The first two went great, the OS X update kept quitting and telling me it couldn't be saved. The computer had begun freezing again, although for shorter durations, without crashing the machine entirely.

    I finally figured out how to get to the Disk Utility to Zero Out the disk. After about an hour of preparing, it told me it is now writing zeros. It says this will take 9 days and 4 hours. After another hour, this number has not fluctuated at all.

    Should I let it do its thing, or go in for repair?
  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,715 points)
    mysie wrote:
    . . .
    I finally figured out how to get to the Disk Utility to Zero Out the disk. After about an hour of preparing, it told me it is now writing zeros. It says this will take 9 days and 4 hours. After another hour, this number has not fluctuated at all.

    Should I let it do its thing, or go in for repair?


    Doesn't look good, does it?

    You did choose the single +Zero Out Disk,+ not the ridiculous 7- or 35-pass version, didn't you?

    If so, I suspect it's time to make an appointment at the Genius Bar of your local Apple Store.
  • mysie Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    The time estimate finally changed: 11 days. sob Nope, I chose the single zero option. I guess it's time to dig out my Apple Care information.

    Thanks for all your help.
  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,715 points)
    mysie wrote:
    The time estimate finally changed: 11 days. sob Nope, I chose the single zero option. I guess it's time to dig out my Apple Care information.


    If you're still covered, great! (And I think Apple will have that, if you can't find paperwork.)

    Thanks for all your help.


    Sure. Post back with the outcome.
  • mysie Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Genius Bar couldn't access my hard drive, so it's in the shop awaiting a new one!