14 Replies Latest reply: Dec 14, 2009 8:54 AM by KOENIG Yvan
Marc135791967 Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)
Hello All,

Here is an "old habits die hard" sort of thing. I'm new to Pages (I've been using Word since the dawn of time), and I'm finding the grammar check to be less than what I'm used to. It doesn't recognize fragment sentences (eg, When I go to the store. I will pick up milk), and verb tense errors. Is there a setting that I haven't found that will accomplish this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Marc

iMac, Mac OS X (10.6.2)
  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,780 points)
    As far as I know, Pages is not delivered with a Grammar Checker, just a Spell Checker.
    If you want a Grammar Checker you must byuy one from a third party editor.

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 13 décembre 2009 17:25:57
  • Peggy Level 8 Level 8 (38,515 points)
    Pages does have a "proof-reader" which is not the same as a grammar checker, but is more/different than the spell checker.

  • Magnus Lewan Level 4 Level 4 (3,655 points)
    tempusfugit13579 wrote:
    Is there a setting that I haven't found that will accomplish this?


    I'm afraid not. Those checks are simply not available in Pages.
  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,780 points)
    I don't see a real difference between SpellChecher and ProofReader.
    But maybe it's because I tested on French text with which both flag only some typos.

    The French User Guide translates _Proof Reader_ by _Correcteur grammatical_ which is absolutely wrong.

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 13 décembre 2009 18:37:12
  • Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (74,450 points)
    I don't see a real difference between SpellChecher and ProofReader.
    But maybe it's because I tested on French text with which both flag only some typos.


    It will also tell you if you have used the wrong article for the gender of the word. That's more than spellchecking.
  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,780 points)
    It seems that it never found such an error when I type in French

    As far as I know, If we want true Grammar Checking in French, we must use

    Antidote, Correcteur 101 or ProLexis (in alphabetic order because I am unable to decide which one is the best).

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 13 décembre 2009 19:04:51
  • Marc135791967 Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)
    I guess I really should have been specific in that I'm using Pages in English.

    Too bad about the grammar checker. Looks like Word has an edge over Pages in this area.

    Marc
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (32,545 points)
    I am of the view that if you need a grammar checker then your education was a waste of time.

    Language is a skill and an exercise in variety and modulation just like music.

    A mechanical "correction" of what you do ends up like a middy music, stilted, flat and mechanical. Not to mention often wrong.

    Peter
  • Magnus Lewan Level 4 Level 4 (3,655 points)
    PeterBreis0807 wrote:

    Language is a skill and an exercise in variety and modulation just like music.

    A mechanical "correction" of what you do ends up like a middy music, stilted, flat and mechanical. Not to mention often wrong.


    Interesting comparison. Did you ever participate in a musical ensemble? A band, an orchestra, a choir? I have seen quite a lot of printed music, where the editor could have made good use of a musical grammar check. Imagine a piece of classical music where the choir has rehearsed a particular chord as a c-major. But when they get to rehearse together, it turns out that the accompanying orchestra has a c-minor chord at that same place. If the editor had used some sort of musical grammar check, he would have found the discrepancy before the music was printed and distributed around the world. At least that's what I thinks.
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (32,545 points)
    I believe in sub-editors or literate better halves to check your work and take into account your intent.

    All the grammar checkers I have seen butcher good language. As has been amply demonstrated when run on the Gettysburg Address or Churchill's war time speeches.

    Using crutches, when you are not an invalid, makes you one.

    Their air moor spilling areas then heavy B4, despot the spilling chuckers.

    Peter
  • Marc135791967 Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)
    Peter,

    Please understand that I mean this with all due respect...even with the best education people will make mistakes. So a quick mistake (as in verb tenses that are inconsistent) can often be caught with a grammar checker. After something is flagged with a grammar checker, the author can then decide if the sentence was deliberate or not. It has less to do with education and more to do with intentional accuracy.

    Besides...my 13 year old daughter makes grammar mistakes. Word highlights the mistakes. She then asks me or her mother why it is incorrect. So my question and comment about Pages had more to do with her and her education rather than the waste of mine.

    And since you brought up music I'll give you one final analogy. I have been taking piano lessons for about a year. When I start working on a new piece of music, I am awful. I bang out the notes on the keyboard, and I hope that my family doesn't decide to kick me out of the house. But over a few weeks (with commentary from my instructor) I am able to make the piece sound palatable. You can think of my instructor as grammar check. If I don't make mistakes, I can never learn (um...for our discussion I'll say continue to learn).

    So back on subject...Word seems to be better at this than Pages. Too bad. I like Numbers and Keynote a lot more than the Microsoft equivalent.

    Marc
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (32,545 points)
    I understand what you are saying but remind you that with spelling checkers as a crutch people in practice are far worse spellers than ever.

    The same with Grammar, no good pointing to worthy examples when 99.9% of users take the attitude the software will:

    1 Pick them up on their slackness

    2 There is no accompanying explanation that they can follow

    3 It leads them to argue with people who do know what they are doing "But my grammar checker says…"

    The musical analogy is not apt here.

    Better would be karaoke software that straightens out your caterwauling and drowns it in decibels to hide the mistakes. The resultant delusional talents then turn up in Albanian Idol.

    peter
  • Marc135791967 Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)
    I understand your view, and I agree that there is no substitute for learning things correctly. But I also think it's good to have something point out potential errors. As I said, it's especially helpful with my 13 year old.

    Perhaps we can agree to disagree on the philosophy of this but simply agree that if you want a grammar checker Pages just don't got it.



    Marc
  • Level 8 Level 8 (41,780 points)
    tempusfugit13579 wrote:
    Perhaps we can agree to disagree on the philosophy of this but simply agree that if you want a grammar checker Pages just don't got it.


    I disagree with the second proposal.

    If we want to use Pages and a Grammar checker, just buy both of them.

    Pages is delivered in 15 localized versions.
    At this time foreign users are bored to see that they have no localized dictionary when you English speaking user have one.
    It would be worse if Apple get a licence for a grammar checker which for sure would be only an English one.
    How much would be the cost of the package if it was embedding 15 dictionaries and 15 grammar checkers ?

    Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 14 décembre 2009 17:54:11