Firmware update and SATA II hard drive (continued)

Technically, Apple can choose to support what they want. If they are now transitioning to a 'shrink wrap' support agreement and potentially booby trapping their hardware to not allow user upgrades than they are in for a whole world of huge and painful hurt.

Historically, companies that have tried such draconian methods to restrain customers have lost their battle and nearly lost their businesses.

Someone mentioned a potential power issue. To verify that, someone who actually paid the money to get the larger hard drive would have to be found and their specs would have to be discovered such as software levels and even power consumption levels too.

Regarding 'AppleCare' doing drive upgrades, the stores do not provide that service except for things like memory, etc that are too easy to install already. To get an 'official' hdd upgrade, you need to go to an Apple Authorized Service Provider of which there aren't a whole lot of them generally. The cost is higher to go this route obviously but if someone can find one local to them and do that and then see what their results are, this would be interesting. They would likely not use your hard drive for the upgrade but I'd be curious what they used and if they had issues post upgrade like people here are experiencing.

Anyone up to the idea? My 'nearest' Apple service joint is over 2 hours away so it's not practical for me but it would be interesting to see what the result is. If the same symptoms appear, then Apple would have to provide support and the effected user could ride that horse a greater distance then a DIY'er ever could...

I did get a cryptic response to a service related question at an Apple Store about a month ago. Something concerning changes in support... At the time, the question I asked evidently hit the mark covered by this 'impending change' but it hadn't been 'released yet' so I got the rather painful dance around the issue. The way they acted was strange, even for an Apple Store. It almost made me wonder if they were in trouble with Apple or losing their stores or something. The way they danced also made me wonder if the management team of the stores (they run 2 of them) was being replaced. If left me wondering what was up and could be unrelated but I thought I'd mention it JIC... Now it makes me wonder if this is part of a change to a shrink wrap style support structure and a clamping down on user upgrades. Prior to this incident, I had visited a different managed store with a question about upgrading my iMac and got the 'No, it'll violate AppleCare' and then a 'No it won't violate AppleCare, but anything that happens post upgrade will not be covered (IE: If I break something going it/out)'. If Apple goes strict I predict a lot of trouble down the line... Given the original Mac and the bizarre extremes Apple went to stop upgrades (and the Mini too), it makes me wonder... Did Steve's treatments make him paranoid like Dick Cheney? Is Steve going back to the old days of sealed boxes and expecting people to buy another x when they run out of space? Stay tuned I guess...

First, thank you everyone for all of the great information you’ve provided on this issue. I bought a Macbook Pro last week and went to look for recommended HD upgrades on this forum, only to come across this thread. I’ve been a 20+ year Windows user and decided to take a chance on a new Macbook Pro. They look cool, come with great software, and have some outstanding features. However this issue is ridiculous. If Apple would recognize it and provide a fix, then I would’ve stayed. No real SATA II support with a 1k plus laptop? This is like a Ferrari with a 150hp motor. Just want them to know they lost a chance to bring a lifelong Windows user onboard. On the bright side, my two hundred dollar netbook should arrive this week and at least I can upgrade that HD with whatever I want or need.

I am having the exact same issue, I am just about to try this cable? I have a hard time believing it will make a difference. Is there another place that sells cables with extra shielding because the below cable just looks like another OEM apple cable and could have the same issue?

Who has replaced there cable with one of these with success?

I have a mid 2009 unibody with an Intel SSD... So sad I am only able to use 50% of the the potential.

http://www.powerbookmedic.com/xcart1/product.php?productid=17387&cat=589&page=1

I haven't posted on this topic for quite a while now, since the EFI downgrade had fixed my beachball freezes.
However, I've done some further testing now and I think I have some interesting observations to add to the discussion.

I am now 100% sure that the freezes occurring on the mid 2009 MBPs are caused by the EFI 1.7 update.
However, I am also quite convinced by now that the reason is not necessarily the increased SATA speed itself here, since I experienced the beachball lockups even with the stock (Hitachi) drive, which is limited to SATA I speed regardless of the installed EFI version, as the problems still went away after downgrading to EFI 1.6.

Now here's what I recently did:
I updated to 1.7 again, and put a Samsung SSD in my MBP.
While I restored from a Carbon Copy Cloner backup, there was not a single beachball or slowdown (and I copied about 100GB of data).
Once I booted from the SSD, however, BANG, there it was again. Beachballing in Safari, Quicktime and VLC, approximately once every 30 minutes.
Strangely, S.M.A.R.T. CRC error counts did not increase (still zero), as was, not so surprisingly, the case with my stock Hitachi drive.

Downgraded to EFI 1.6 again, and, voilà, no more beachballs.

(Apart from benchmarks, in practical usage I have not seen any slowdowns, BTW. Starting XP inside VMWare does not take one second longer. So, the SATA 1 "bottleneck" is actually not as bad as people think it is.)

While I still do believe you guys when you say the cable (shielding/bends?) is to blame in those cases where the drive is completely unusable, I'm by now convinced that there is more to it than that when it comes to the freezes.

I just wish Apple would admit to the problem, pull the EFI 1.7 from Software Updates, make the downgrade tool publicly available and get to work on a real fix (EFI 1.8). Quite obviously 1.7 was just a dirty and untested hack in order to satisfy the media as quickly as possible. Bad move. And so not what I would have expected from Apple.

I don't want to know how many logic boards have been replaced unnecessarily (and without curing the problem), and how many users are experiencing the freezes without having a clue what's happening to them.

Poor show, indeed, Apple. Shooting themselves in the knee here.

And again, thanks a lot to the guy who posted the downgrade image.

The new line of Macbook Pros announced today still do not offer official support for a SATA II interface. I await an ifixit teardown, but unless the hard drive cable has been beefed up, I'd expect that these same problems may occur. You've been warned.

Hi Tozzi, probably you have already wrote .. but please can you tell me the procedure to downgrade to 1.6 ?

Hi Tozzi, sorry but I'm a new MAC users.
after downgrade the EFI 1.6, what happens if youinstall the OS 10.6.3 ?
The firmaware will be upgraded again ?
EFI 1.6 ... is the firmware of SATA chip ?

Thanks.

mistermany wrote:
Hi Tozzi, sorry but I'm a new MAC users.
after downgrade the EFI 1.6, what happens if youinstall the OS 10.6.3 ?
The firmaware will be upgraded again ?
EFI 1.6 ... is the firmware of SATA chip ?

Thanks.

Here is a link to instructions for downgrading from EFI 1.7 to EFI 1.6. This procedure only applies to Mid-2009 13" and 15" MBPs. The file used to downgrade was not released by Apple and you do this at your own risk. Incorrectly installed firmware can render your system inoperable.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=729883&highlight=efi+downgrade&page =13

Updating the operating system software will not affect the firmware. However, after downgrading the firmware, when you run Software Update it may suggest that you upgrade your firmware to EFI version 1.7. You can set this message to be ignored in the future.

Well, I've just brought home a 2010 13" MBP and replacing the drive with either of my Seagate and WD drives causes a kernel panic right after the Apple logo and spinning wheel. A curtain of darkness comes over the screen and I'm asked to reboot (which doesn't help). The stock drive (Hitachi) does say it has Apple firmware so I'm none the wiser on whether it's a cable prob or something deeper. The system shows SATAII Link Speed 3Gbps, Negotiated Link Speed 1.5Gbps.

Can someone remind me where I can get the third-party cable that might sort it out please?

Update: had much more luck trying something else..... this time I tried to do a clean install on to the HD instead of trying to boot from the old Leopard OS that was on the HD from my old machine. I used Snow Leopard that came with the MBP - it all seems to work fine, including getting a negotiated link speed of 3Gbps. I'll run a bit longer to see if I get any beachballs.

Does this firmware problem affect the late-2008 Unibody MacBook pros? I have the following model:
Model Identifier: MacBookPro5,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP51.0073.B02
SMC Version (system): 1.33f6
Just installed a Sandforce-based OWC Mercury Extreme 100GB SSD this afternoon. Just wondering if I should go ahead with the firmware update to 1.8? Speeds seem to top out at around 150MB/sec so I am wondering if this early model has the SATA limitations also.

Just downgraded to 1.6 EFI: the beachball seems to appear less frequently but it is still somewhat present. I' m using a WD Scorpio Blue 500 Gb.
I will keep this firmware for a couple of days then I'll decide between 1.6 and 1.7

IMHO the problem seems to be related with the hdd continually try to spin down ...

I have also a late 2008 unibody and im negotiating at 3Gb, and this is with a 500Gb 7200rpm ST9500420AS,

I have a late 2008 unibody and my HD is connecting at 3GB also. Dont know what firmware I have currently but am getting prompts for both 1.6 and 1.8. Do the late 2008 models have the same SATA cable length problems that the later mid 2009 models do?