Dokken Guitar Tone

Is there anyway to model a guitar tone similar to Dokken like in Under Lock and Key with the new Garageband settings? All I can seem to get is fuzz. And they all sound similar.

Thanks,

Kirk

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6), 2.4 - 4 Gig - 7200 RPM - High Res | + 2 XP-Home Built AMD X2 6000+ 4G Ram

Posted on Jan 2, 2010 12:02 PM

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12 replies

Jan 2, 2010 4:52 PM in response to Kirk D

Kirk D wrote:
Is there anyway to model a guitar tone similar to Dokken like in Under Lock and Key with the new Garageband settings? All I can seem to get is fuzz. And they all sound similar.

Thanks,

Kirk


You probably want to keep in mind that a large of chunk of George's tone is how he plays not just what chords and phrasing he uses. His pick attack is huge to his playing and how he frets a note creates a very important key to his playing.

Also remember that when you record a single channel even with a good amp sim, it will not sound like that massive tone until you fatten it up with a stereo panned output, some EQ and compression which are all part of the production process and not so much the recording process.

There was a band called Harem Scarem from Canada and had a great album (amazing guitar playing) called Mood Swings. The guitar player was asked in an interview how he got the massive tone on the CD and he said his equipment was pretty standard and it certainly didn't sound as massive when he recorded it. It all came together in post production stuff.

I guess I would suggest that you record as a clean Real Instrument then add effect after recording and that way you can control the tone from inside GB.

To add to what someone else said, George's recordings were analog (2" tape) in an ideal studio setting. Also, you can't discount the boominess and projection of an amp cabinet.

Jan 2, 2010 9:51 PM in response to JeffS65

Oh, yes, I understand completely the value of the playing. I never met Mr. Lynch, but did spend about a month in Amigo studios where Dokken recorded in the 80's. In fact my friends had Michael Wagoner produce their album also.

The band that I was friends with had two guitarists and one had this awesome tone with a Strat, a Marshall Stack and a Rat pedal. The other one had $5000 of Alesis equipment in a rack and still didn't have the tone. Little by little the equipment left the rack and little by little is tone got better and better, until both guitarists has the same rigs.

I have a track that is recorded straight through the Tascam into Garage Band. Being a novice user to Garage Band, I don't know how to approach the tone thing. Right now, I started with the Big Hair Band on the one track, but it sounds fuzzy and doesn't have much umph to it. I duplicated the track and used Memphis clean, but have it lower in the mix just to fatten it out.

Would it be prudent to duplicate the track with the same basic rig and put one track all the way right and the other all the way left and change the settings slightly on the compressor and/or amp?

I am just looking for some ideas to play with to get better guitar tones. I know that I won't duplicate George Lynch, but am striving for a better tone than using the preset and tweaking it.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Kirk

Jan 2, 2010 10:25 PM in response to Kirk D

Would it be prudent to duplicate the track with the same basic rig and put one track all the way right and the other all the way left and change the settings slightly on the compressor and/or amp?


That's a good idea, but it's not necessary to hard pan - unless that's where it lands in the final mix for whatever reason. Just a two to five degree L and R offset ought to do. Also, you don't really need to change any of the settings. You can, but try instead deactivating the Snap to Grid command and then offsetting the tracks by a very small degree for a slight stereo chorus effect. That might just give you the fatness you're hoping for (careful though, or you're going to get an exaggerated echo/delay sound).

Did you know you can switch out amps while leaving effects presets in place? Or that you can add/subtract stomp-boxes as well as adjust all of the levels? Also, all of the individual settings can be adjusted on the amps themselves. Usually doesn't take much, but it's surprisingly effective to play around with all this stuff.

I remember way back in the day you could read in Guitar Player magazine the entire gear setups and configurations of guys like George Lynch. I think with a little research you could find and replicate pretty closely what he was doing then. You might even be able to ask him directly via MySpace - you never know: it's a lot easier to do that kind of thing these days.

Jan 3, 2010 5:45 AM in response to JKSBass

{quote:title=JKSBass wrote:}I remember way back in the day you could read in Guitar Player magazine the entire gear setups and configurations of guys like George Lynch. I think with a little research you could find and replicate pretty closely what he was doing then. You might even be able to ask him directly via MySpace - you never know: it's a lot easier to do that kind of thing these days.

{quote}

JKSBass,

You will find this interesting. It was written by Michael Wagener himself.
I found it here: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/77436-george-lynch-tone.html

{quote}Obviously George's tone is coming from the way he plays, out of his hands, but since you asked:

The setup for George's guitar tone on "Under Lock And Key" was as follows:
We had two Marshall heads and two Laney heads, not sure which models, but one of them was a Plexi. We had cabs in three different rooms: two cabs were placed in the big room at Amigo, one connected to a Marshall, the other connected to the Laney. The Marshall was responsible for the high end part of the sound and the Laney was set to take care of the low end. There were 14 (fourteen) mics set up in that room in various psoitions around the cabinet and some further away to get some room tone. The second Laney was sent into a very dead room and had a Boss chorus pedal in front of it, set to very slight chorus. The second Marshall was sent into a small, tiled bathroom, to add a different room tone. Those 16 mics came in on the MCI 500 console mic pres. They were bussed to one bus and that bus had a UREI 530 EQ on it (best guitar EQ ever). George mentioned that he always gets a great tone with his Fostex 4track recorder when it's in total overdrive, so I asked him to bring it in. So after the 530 everything was sent to the Fostex 4track, which lived under a packing blanket under the console, so nobody would see it. The Fostex was on stunn, completely overdriven and was sent on to the 3M 32 track dig machine from there.

No, I am NOT kidding!!!
________________
Michael Wagener
http://www.michaelwagener.com
{quote}

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have found out that the presets are only suggestions and that I can switch/add/change amps, pedals, et. al. Just am not doing the right things yet to get a tone that I like.

Kirk

Jan 3, 2010 2:39 PM in response to Kirk D

Yeah, that vintage Laney + Marshall Plexi combo is hard to beat - and I guarantee it's the basis of that sound you seek. All that mic placement is fun, but at least that is one link in the chain that can be very closely replicated with modern hard/software. And, what the heck, if you have the time and money - why not get your hands on some of that old analogue outboard gear and fire it up!

Jan 4, 2010 9:23 PM in response to Kirk D

What I meant was to play around with reverb room tones. For instance, here's an interesting, modestly priced piece of gear by Lexicon:

http://www.lexiconpro.com/product.php?id=12

...and there's a bunch of great verb software too - but, yeah, you can also really upgrade your amp mods with a lot of killer software on the market right now. IK Multimedia is kind of the standard-bearer in this department at the moment. Most if not all high-end amp mod software has mic placement options, so between all this stuff you'd be getting even closer to what your after.

Jan 5, 2010 3:21 PM in response to JKSBass

JKSBass wrote:
IK Multimedia is kind of the standard-bearer in this department at the moment. Most if not all high-end amp mod software has mic placement options, so between all this stuff you'd be getting even closer to what your after.


I agree but then again I've mentioned IK stuff in other posts. I drink the IK Kool-Aid.

I just did the Stealth Pedal w/ Amplitube Metal and scored the 4 for 1 special on other titles (in addition got Hendrix, Ampli 2 and Ampeg SVX) and been messing with it for a week or so now. It is endless amounts of stuff and I have to say I'm not at all let down by the quality. I'm a true tone monkey and fussy as all get out for tone and have been very pleased.

Point being, I think, is that a good amp sim with lots of options will be useful in building tone. Recently I wanted to build a pretty crushing drop D tone for a riff I recorded (the riff was ok but I still wanted to get it down). I used three different amp/configurations on 5 channels with different widths for panning, reverb and chorus as well as varying prominence in the mix (ok, a little overkill). Turned out well enough for a 40 second sample. So, I think the point with really monkeying with the mix n match stuff is a good point. It's what George did and what lots of artists do.

Jan 6, 2010 11:53 AM in response to JeffS65

I concur - I use all the Amplitubes and also Guitar Rig 3, Overloud's TH1.1, ROCK AMP LEGENDS, etc and they all have different sounds - but I like Amplitube FENDER the best. My Boss GS-10 interface has some of Lynch's presets that sound pretty close just using the built-in sims (in the Boss GS-10). I recommend Amplitube 2, AT Metal, AT X-Gear and especially AT Fender (although for high-gain Fender is not the best).

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Dokken Guitar Tone

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