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All replies
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Helpful answers
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Jul 29, 2011 3:40 AM in response to Paul L UKby .:SiLo:.,To Err(or) is human:
My apologies for grossly simplifying:
'Error 0x80020022' means basically the same as ''Cannot calibrate laser..'
It cannot calibrate because it can't communicate is more or less what I meant.
My point was that the burning process still evetually errors out and that the actual error definition does not point to the nature of the problem, and can be misleading. For example 'Cannot calibrate laser...' would naturally lead to the assumption that there is a problem with the laser or drive itself. But for most, the drive had functioned perfectly until the upgrade. Res ipsa loquitur, the OS upgrade process has bugs and the drive is functioning perfectly. It's the OS (or IMHO the EFI) which is the problem.
Changing Error Messages:
The change from one error message to another can be explained by the DVD drive being region specific. The region check or error message/de-bugging could have a glitch where different error messages are returned dependent on language preference. For example: if the system language was set to Japanese, the error message 'Cannot calibrate...' may not be understood by the user, thus a code is returned instead. English messages for english speaking users. I believe the nature of this bug rather points to the real problem, and not the error message itself.
Static in the Air:
Even mild static is enough for dust to stick. The laptops I have worked on/repaired all had extremely dusty insides, with the fans and surrounding the fan casing being especially bad. Yes, the speed of the fan blade is directly proportional to the static that can be generated (faster = more), however, the amount of static needed isn't the sort where there is electrical arcing. I'm not talking about lightning bolts firing out of the back of your laptop (although that would be quite cool to see).
Everyone needs a Genius, not:
Don't know which 'Genius' you spoke to, but they all seem to give different answers from one to another. CD lens cleaners are usually a normal DVD disc with one or several little brushes attached. Normally they are not recommended becasue the cheap ones with poor brush quality can damage the lens. I bought an expensive one (Philips). I have never had one jam or damage my drive, but it is true that the brushes can interfere with the disc ejection rollers causing them to not grip.
Enough (hot) Air:
This is exactly the kind of blog conversation digression that I can't stand. I don't want to argue. If you want to blast air into your laptop, go for it. I won't be. If you have a nice clean laptop, that's really great. I wish mine was, but I freelance and work in at least 3 different studios and on the road (sometimes working outside too).
The Real Problem:
The point is that Apple is not addressing this problem. This we all can definitely agree with!
I have not been able to use my MacBook Pro to burn discs for over a year since upgrading from Tiger to Snow Leopard (including booting to other OS's, using external burners, and different media brands). Other people have had exactly the same problem before these OS versions and now after as well. It seems crazy to me that Apple's solution is to either replace the drive, or in some cases replace the logic board. I would really like to know the truth behind the problem. If it is as simple as a firmware patch, then they would've released a fix by now. My gut feeling is that it is a much more complex problem, rooted in the subtle differences in hardware revisions from model to model. If this is the case then there would need to be different EFI and SuperDrive firmware versions for all the combinations of hardware. More importantly, it would open the door to recalls and repairs on a massive scale. Does anyone remember the famous scene in 'Fight Club' about car recalls and why they don't do them?
The next Mac:
I will need to upgrade by spring of next year. I intend to have completely phased discs out of my life by then (I will deliver content to clients via the Cloud). I will purchase the 3 year extended AppleCare and back-up via Time Machine daily. When something (and I mean when and not if) goes wrong with the new laptop, I will send it away to be fixed and demand a temporary replacement which I will restore my back-up to. I have wasted far too much time sorting out and fixing my machine, rather than working chargeable hours for clients!
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Jul 29, 2011 4:23 AM in response to .:SiLo:.by Paul L UK,Fair enough regarding static I misread what you were meaning, Thought by spraying air and dislodging the dust you were then causing a static issue, e.g. statictly charged dust partciles landing on tracks and other components and shorting them out.
Agree sparkes coming out the back would look good, until they set fire to any paper on the desk . It's the same as when the HT coil casing on old CRT monitors broke down, you could see purple plasma sparking and grounding on the frame when you turned the workshop lights off, that always looked cool, but highly dangerous if you came into contact with it due to the high voltage.
The issue for me at least does appear to be a two fold one as I can replicate the comms error by changing settings, but calbration issue from some further info I've found is that it can come about by an OS change in that the settings which would be hard coded into the O/S either for the burning parameters or comms get changed and so on old version of O/S the drive tolerances were slacker and they then tightened them up which results in a optivcal drive which used to work now not working, and all of this can be achieved at a software level. I have 2 lines of thought why that might then occur as Apple aren't really known for being good to their users that use older kit.
Not sure if you own or ever saw issue regarding IOS on the iPhone when they moved to iPhone 4 all us iPhone 3 users found the update made our phones run like 3 legged dogs, now again that might be they had no choice to get things going the way they needed to be on iPhone 4 but is also a good way to push users from 3 to 4 by making the 3 series look slow and rubbish compared to the new generation.
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Jul 29, 2011 5:49 AM in response to Paul L UKby .:SiLo:.,Apple takes the Osborn Effect too seriously and releases updates and upgrades in an absolutely insidious way.
Message In A Bottle:
My suggestion would be that Apple releases a utility that reads any given hardware configuration and rolls back the drive calibration to appropriate tolerances for the given model drive. The utility can be 'hidden' in Software Update. It can even do an online version check/download as new fixes are added. To keep with the deliberate strategy to pimp out the new products, while prostituting out the old, this utility could even restrict the top speed a little. i don't care, just make it work again. Perhaps this wish will remain just that. I believe (persistantly) the real issue is within the EFI which sets these parameters at boot and before the OS loads. This would also explain a host of other problems people experience such as random beach-ball lock-ups (hardware communication timing)...
Off(hook) Topic:
I have also had a problem where upgrading my iOS corrupted my baseband firmware (NOR) where the radio table was not correctly copied (as far as I could discover) rendering my WiFi and Bluetooth functionality inoperable. I believe a small utility could be created to read and correct the table after examining the hardware, since this would need to be a unique fix for each phone having this issue. Trouble is that the corrected table must be flashed to the 'NVRAM' and the phone can't flash itself (but would be super cool if it could!).
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Jul 29, 2011 9:50 AM in response to krbusbyby Motorcycle Michael,There are countless combinations of CPU/hardware/OS/software out there, and more created daily. Bound to be issues..... The A series chip could easily morph into a whole new platform, too, but we're getting a long ways from the 0x80020022 error that started this thread.
A 1.83GHz MacBook was backed up here, then upgraded to OS 10.6.3 via $30 OS DVD from Apple.
Software Update had two batches of 6 updates each, including EFI firmware (v1). After bringing machine current to 10.6.7, the optical drive produced 0x80020022 error. Booted from a 10.5.8 volume, the OD functioned fine, w/o error. Solution was to wipe hard drive and restore from backup, upgraded to 10.6.3, which is where we left it. OD burns at 24x.
(Wish I had recorded the brand of drive - sorry.)
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Aug 3, 2011 3:07 PM in response to krbusbyby Ken Townsend,I read thru page 5 of this thread. I've been an Apple user since 1986 and I can definitely say that their computer products have taken a sharp drop in quality in the last decade. They're all shiny and pretty and induce irrational buying, but under the hood these MacBook Pro's, which easily go for upward of $1500, are not solid state. Specifically, the SuperDrives are crap, and have been for at least the last 3 years or so. I have a 2008 MacBook Pro and getting a DVD to burn, using either Toast or Mac's own disc burning utility, yields an error almost every time.
There is hope, however. I bought this stand alone DVD/CD burner from Other World Computing, and it burned two DVDs flawlessly right out of the box (at x16 no less!) So there is a way around some of this frustration, but you shouldn't have to buy third party products when you're supposedly buying a state of the art computer from a company with $70 billion in reserves.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/VLU2SD22XLS/
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Aug 3, 2011 5:06 PM in response to Ken Townsendby diveactive,I totally agree, Mac has disappointed me also twice with hard ware trouble . And this **** super drive. Whats so super , if it don’t do the Job . its been an Embarrassment to me. and many of my colleges laugh for buying a mac.
I have been to so many blogs on this topic. two including this one . On my own quire about this. Said legal action should be taken. as this infringes consumer right. Where those TV programs like Watch dog? UK
Sorry mac . this has just gone on far to long , with no resolve. error code 0x80020022)
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2300720
i have gone on other forums and blogs and this seems to be an on going thing . Its about time this was put right and a simple down load or fix was made, as the forums are growing so big. Scanning through them makes me ill.
How to stop this Error Code 0x80020025 and access my DVDs
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Sep 21, 2011 2:43 AM in response to krbusbyby diveactive,3 years later and still no come back from Mac . i have e mailed . been on their hot line and sent back feed back from repair. And still I get this trouble with the super drive, I have slowed to 2x etc and still cannot Burn ML DVDs . It was OK when i first had the mac , but after up dates , No go No resolve.
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Sep 21, 2011 7:42 AM in response to diveactiveby krbusby,Original Poster here.
Interesting to see this thread is still going.
I'll give an update in the next day or two of my dealings with this issue and Apple in general.
Oh ya, check out the Apple Nazis in this other thread I started but had to abandon because of the Apple loyalists trolling me.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2671872?start=0&tstart=0
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Sep 21, 2011 10:05 AM in response to krbusbyby diveactive,Yep soooooooo long and money thrown away on DVDs.
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Sep 21, 2011 10:10 AM in response to krbusbyby krbusby,Okay, so here's an update. I know I should have the names and dates of people I spoke with at Apple but I wasn't planning on writing a serious article on the subject so I'm going to keep it brief and simple.
First of all, if you're getting the dreaded error mesage and you have AppleCare or original warrantee... take your computer in for repairs and mention the error message. Although Apple hasn't said anything to us they seem to have spoken with there service personel because they don't even hesitate, or test the drive from what I can tell, they just put a new one in, no questions asked.
Do not waist your money trying every brand of disc on the market. It's not the discs, it's the drive.
My experience with Apple has completely turned me off. I took my MacBook White 2008 in for repairs when the bottom case was cracking so badly I was afraid it would literally fall apart. This is when the DVD drive was replaced... but they refused to fix the cracking case. (Note, this wasn't the keyboard top case but the bottom.) This is on a laptop that spends almost all of its time sitting on a desk. I have found new cracks that magically appeared when the thing hadn't been moved in days.
It took many phone calls to Apple and I spoke with several people explaining that I had paid aprox. $350.00 Canadian for AppleCare and I expected them to fix this. They offered to supply the part but not the labor. I said this wasn't good enough and they finally conceded and fixed the problem.
To appease me they sent me some Apple swag, a baseball cap, water bottle and a t-shirt, all ablazened with the Apple logo of course. The kicker is by the tie the swag arrived, aprox. 6 weeks, the new bottom case was cracking all to ****. lol
This poor service seems to be intermittent. Some people receive excellent service and I don't know on what criteria Apple decides to base their treatment of customers on.
I have a neighbor who had exactly the same areas of crackage that I had, she took her laptop to the same service center for an upgrade and when the service tech noticed the cracks he contacted Apple to see what they could do Apple didn't even hesitate to repair it. She was out of warrantee and had no AppleCare!
I've been around these forums since 2006, I have had posts and entire topics deleted and/or edited by Apple loyalists. I have been told not to raise certain topics. I've had to change my user name but that doesn't seem possible any more.
The sad thing is Apple is pretty damned good. But when they don't step up to the plate and take responsibility for they're mistakes they lose good customers.
I'm done with Apple. My next computer will be a Toshiba and they offer Linux drivers as well so you know what I'll be doing.
From a previous thread on the same topic matter:
That's great! And in all honesty I'm happy for you. <=== Note: No sarcasm
There's two point here. The first is that any Google search will prove that any thinking person that these drives have a higher than normal malfunction issue. Maybe 80% of the drives are fine, but that number should be higher.
The second point is the interesting one; The absolute inability of certain persons to believe that Apple can do something wrong. Steve Jobs and Apple are people. They make mistakes, they deny there's been mistakes made, usually folding only after class actions have been filed.
Apple still has a way to go before they're almost perfect but as long as the Apple Gestapo are there with their "I've never had that problem", "That's not Apple's fault", "I don't know what you're talking about", (With fingers in ears) "I can't hear you!".
Not to mention the ever popular move of deleting posts and banning users.
Apple is so fricking close to being the best thing out there. They're so far ahead of Microsoft already. But the attitude has cost them a lot of customers. Their lack of interest in listening to the consumer.
They're great at predicting what the consumer will want, I'll give them that, but that doesn't mean they LISTEN.
I'll end it here. I'm under Apple Care so it's no sweat for me but I had to say something, as everyone should.
iBook G4 sound balance issue... never resolved.
MacBook White stains easily... Apple says we all have dirty hands
MacBook White casing cracks... Apple says we don't know how to open and close our laptops
Keyboard letters wearing off... Apple says we have unusual, natural body oils
Defective main-boards... Apple says plenty, none of it productive until finally a recall was issued
iPhones, poor reception... Apple says we're holding them wrong
And for every such statement their are people here standing with Apple saying we're all stupid. Maybe we're not cattle and like to think for ourselves. But as long as you guys keep collecting those shiny, blue 'Top User' (lol) Apple Points you'll stand by your man.
"I said "Good day sir!""MacBook White 2.1GHz Duo, Mac OS X (10.6.5), 6Gig Ram
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Sep 21, 2011 10:17 AM in response to krbusbyby diveactive,HA HA thats a joke
When my MBP was new i was living in Mac Borneo trouble after trouble, I told them again and again forum after forum , to fix this super drive. All they said was it woud have to be replace and cost da da da 1500 Rm the repair no telling how long . As they do not have the drives in malaysia.
Time goes on Im told use other DVDs. Times passes. I call hot line i write here on Forums time after time . Now AppleCare or original warrantee... I went to renew when i came back from uk, Theytold me "cannot" as i was a day late ! And on top if you look at these forums Screen trouble, graphics card . Anothe rstory
Il never buy another thing that i cannot repair my self.
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Sep 22, 2011 1:31 AM in response to diveactiveby .:SiLo:.,Can't we focus on what a forum is supposed to be for?!
I could'nt care less about Apple bashing and whining and complaining.
I'm here to find useful information to see what I can do about my hardware problem.
If you want to complain, join a support group.
These threads always degrade into unproductive banter.
If you have a problem with your laptop casing, complain on that thread.
Likewise for keyboard lettering wearing off - go to that thread.
As far as I can tell about SuperDrives is that the hardware works and isn't damaged.
I connected my supposedly faulty SuperDrive to a PC laptop (with a new driver), and the drive was working fine and burned a disc without problems.
I suspect a problem with the EFI firmware flash. The EFI is uprgarded often with a new version of OSX. For example, when Tiger was released, it was a major update and is when I can track back the beginnings of SuperDrive problems. Now people also have random beach-ball lock-ups and other EFI related problems.
Apple will not recall the SuperDrives - ever.
They won't acknowledge the EFI problem, because this would result and major recall and repair issues.
They will ignore, and eventually the problem (us) will go away.
I have been trying to push for an EFI roll-back tool, which used to exist to rollback EFI 1.7 to 1.6 or 1.5. This fixed a lot of peoples problems, however Apple blocked this backdoor once upgraded to EFI 1.8 becuase people were using the rollback to enable them to use hardware not sanctioned by Apple (faster hard drives).
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Sep 22, 2011 8:50 AM in response to .:SiLo:.by krbusby,It's by not saying anything that things stay the same.
You honestly don't believe that having posts and threads deleted or being banned for trying to get to the bottom of an issue, ususally one that pertains to hardware or software, is "unproductive banter"?
So your wolrd sounds like this. "Oh thank you Apple for resolving the problem after three years and much of my money and time being waisted. My butt's a little sore from being raped by you, but it all worked out in the end (pardon the pun). I'm so glad people didn't bash you and hurt your feelings while this was all being worked out."
People are not only trying to resolve their hardware and software issues but they also want better service in the future. Some of these issues take years to be resolved and I think that has people a littled miffed. So yes, we do have to mention these things along with the problems.
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Sep 22, 2011 5:54 PM in response to krbusbyby diveactive,Hi They resolved the problem even after 3 years ? How. ? what he has written here ,Is what this is about. NO RESOLVE NO CARE >
Its just goes on and on and on. And still after all this time I still cannot burn 8GB ML DVD. And from not been able . Its Embarrassing , As when i am out on location and the Client wants there work on ML I have to explain. Also the volume of space from back up photographs. I have to lug all this back to the UK one day.
PLEASE PLEASE sort this matter out. I just cannot afford to sent it off pay for another. as its cost me already. I bought this Mac book pro on recomendation. As it burns DL DVDs and if fast for Grpaphis and photographers. nothing but trouble with the Graphics and this super drive.
I could have bough 2 lap tops for the price of this one.
Well said .
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Sep 23, 2011 1:41 PM in response to .:SiLo:.by Kronstat_Kid,Ran into the same problem. Contacted Apple and tried to burn a DVD with some 3.4 GB of photos. Absolutely no problem.
That being said . . . when I initially tried to do the burn, somehow, the burn speed was 24X . . . for this machine, a new 27" iMac, that BURN speed is impossible (at least according to Apple). I definitely remember 24X, and thought it reasonable for this spanking new machine. NOT SO, says apple.
Read at 24X and even 64X is possible but NOT WRITE!!
During my on-line test with Apple, burning at 24X was NOT avilable, maximum 8X.
Welcome to the wonderful world of bits and bytes.
I will continue to monitor my "burn" speeds, and should the 24X appear AGAIN, there will be an instant call to Apple in an effort to resolve "why?".
Hope this helps in getting a resolve for this apparnt inconsistency.
Jake

