Ipod Touch 2g seems to track like gps in google maps

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Ipod Touch 2g seems to track like gps in google maps

I have an iPod Touch 2G with Firmware 3.1.2 installed.

I live in France and I have sometimes opened google maps at home to cache some maps of the country side for a driving excursion. Then when I am on the road I open google maps to use the cached data.

The extremely strange thing is that the blue location dot shows up and starts to follow my car's location. I can tell you that there was no internet connection because I was in the middle of the French country side and far from any of my iPod's 'known' wifi connections.

The problem is I can't get it to happen on a regular basis. I've also had it occur once when I was in Houston Texas. I can't figure out the sequence that is necessary to make this happen regularly.

How can this be if there is no GPS installed on the 2G? It MUST have it!

Anyone else had this occur to them?

iPod Touch 2G, iPhone OS 3.1.2

Posted on Jan 18, 2010 8:22 AM

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Answer 1

roaminggnome

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106,401 points

Jan 18, 2010 8:30 AM in response to jtchil0

It does not have GPS.

You likely passed by wi-fi routers (could be someone's personal router) and your ipod was able to get a fix this way.

Others have reported this as well. Nothing magic or no hidden GPS.

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Answer 2

jtchil0 Author

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Jan 19, 2010 1:44 PM in response to roaminggnome

I find it hard to beleive that French vineyards have wifi in the middle of their fields.

I'm not technologically challenged. I can say for certain that there was NO wireless. If there were the iPod would have asked me if I want to connect to the network. And at the very least would have indicated a connection with the wifi icon in the bar at the top!

Sorry but your explanation doesn't fit.

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Answer 3

roaminggnome

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106,401 points

Jan 19, 2010 1:54 PM in response to jtchil0

So you think it is more likely that Apple put additional hardware in the ipod that they do not charge for, advertise, or use and that those who immediately take these things apart to find out what is in the are also keeping this secret?

Really?

This explanation fits better?

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Answer 4

sparky67

Level 2

421 points

Jan 19, 2010 8:19 PM in response to jtchil0

THERE IS NO GPS IN ANY iPOD TOUCH, period.

Roaminggnome explained your observations perfectly correct.

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Answer 5

sparky67

Level 2

421 points

Jan 19, 2010 8:27 PM in response to jtchil0

Why don't you shut down your Wifi completely then open Google Maps.

You MIGHT see the last set of maps load from cache and you might even see the blue dot indicate your last Wifi location, BUT you will NEVER see the blue dot update its position without Wifi.

Drive around the vineyards and see for yourself.

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Answer 6

jtchil0 Author

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Jan 20, 2010 1:38 AM in response to roaminggnome

So there is no GPS in the iPod Touch. I can accept that.

However, this must mean that my iPod connected to some stranger's wifi router in the middle of a field and connected without asking me AND without indicating it was connected via the wifi signal icon in the task bar.

How do you explain that?

Also, I've tried using the location information from my home router in google maps, but it always places me miles away due to the way my local DSL company operates their network distribution. Which raises the question again of how it could track me on the road with such accuracy with a wifi signal alone.

Not trying to be rude, just trying to understand the technology.

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Answer 7

sparky67

Level 2

421 points

Jan 20, 2010 6:06 AM in response to jtchil0

jtchil0 wrote:
So there is no GPS in the iPod Touch. I can accept that.

Then accept it.

jtchil0 wrote:
However, this must mean that my iPod connected to some stranger's wifi router in the middle of a field and connected without asking me AND without indicating it was connected via the wifi signal icon in the task bar.

Given the lack of a GPS receiver, it would seem that way.

jtchil0 wrote:
How do you explain that?

It's easier to just explain to you how it's designed to work... from there you're on your own to figure out the anomalies based on thousands of variables.

jtchil0 wrote:
Also, I've tried using the location information from my home router in google maps, but it always places me miles away due to the way my local DSL company operates their network distribution.

Report any inaccurate Wifi location here...

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/submit_ap.php

There are a few free apps that will report your current access point's MAC address.

jtchil0 wrote:
Which raises the question again of how it could track me on the road with such accuracy with a wifi signal alone.

The company below provides the database access for "Location Services" on the Touch. +"accurate within 10 to 20 meters"+ which ONLY WORKS while connected to a hotspot in the database.

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/

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Answer 8

roaminggnome

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Jan 20, 2010 9:45 AM in response to jtchil0

"How do you explain that?"

I have already explained this. Your ipod picks up wi-fi signals (whether it connects to them for internet use or not - my ipod sees 5 wi-fi connections right now although I am connected to only one). It sees available wi-fi signal as you drive and can get a location on some. Turn your wi-fi off and make the same trip. Guess what? It will not track you

Just because your router does not place you accurately does not mean that ALL routers are miles off. Mine is accurate to my address.

You do realize that the ONLY radios capable of sending and receiving signals in the ipod are bluetooth (Very short range) and wi-fi.

How can you believe that there is any other explanation?

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Answer 9

jtchil0 Author

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Jan 20, 2010 10:50 AM in response to roaminggnome

I understand how the wifi location works, but you must connect to a network and communicate via the internet to determine your location.

I suppose I'm stuck at the part where my iPod connected to a wifi router without telling me in any of its normal ways.

I understand that not all routers are inaccurate, but they can't track your precise location, can they? I mean, it's really just checking your IP address against a database. Every IP address has location information associated with it.

Or are they somehow using multiple wifi routers to triangulate a position? However, I would think that would require me to connect to them all...

Thanks for the link, I'll update my router's location.

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Answer 10

sparky67

Level 2

421 points

Jan 20, 2010 11:15 AM in response to jtchil0

jtchil0 wrote:
I understand how the wifi location works, but you must connect to a network and communicate via the internet to determine your location.

I suppose I'm stuck at the part where my iPod connected to a wifi router without telling me in any of its normal ways.

I understand that not all routers are inaccurate, but they can't track your precise location, can they? I mean, it's really just checking your IP address against a database. Every IP address has location information associated with it.

Or are they somehow using multiple wifi routers to triangulate a position? However, I would think that would require me to connect to them all...

Thanks for the link, I'll update my router's location.

You keep asking for information about how it works and I provided that to you here... all you have to do is read it...

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/

But I can see you didn't read it yet because it does not use IP address but MAC address of the router to determine location within the accuracy of the database. I submitted mine and it shows the exact center of the roof of my house.... because those are the Lat/Long coordinates I submitted to the database.

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Answer 11

Jan 20, 2010 11:18 AM in response to jtchil0

i don't think you actually need to be connected to a network in order for it to pick up the location.
you just need to be in the vicinity of a router that is registered with the skyhook database. routers will only show the location if the information of it's location is in the database - you can register locations of router's yourself at the website: http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/coverage.php

i agree, it seems unlikely that there will be many wifi routers in the middle of french fields, but it's the only explanation we have.

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Answer 12

sparky67

Level 2

421 points

Jan 20, 2010 12:39 PM in response to Anna Sandham

Anna Sandham wrote:
i don't think you actually need to be connected to a network in order for it to pick up the location.

I believe the router would at least need to be unsecured as you still need to connect & communicate, albeit briefly, with Skyhook's database.

I just can't imagine how my WPA2 secured router is going to let any unauthorized device communicate with the internet even for a single query.

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Answer 13

Jan 20, 2010 1:56 PM in response to sparky67

sparky67 wrote:

Anna Sandham wrote:
i don't think you actually need to be connected to a network in order for it to pick up the location.

I believe the router would at least need to be unsecured as you still need to connect & communicate, albeit briefly, with Skyhook's database.

you say that, but when i've been staying at my grandmas i was able to get the maps app to pick up my location from a nearby router, but the network was a secure one that i couldnt access.

i dunno.

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Answer 14

jtchil0 Author

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Jan 21, 2010 3:28 AM in response to sparky67

This is the basis of my problem in figuring this out.

You must connect to the internet and communicate with the database to find your location. The only other possibility would be that your iPod carries around the database itself, but that would be ridiculous.

So then the conclusion is that my iPod doesn't have a problem connecting to an unsecured network without my permission.

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