Dreaded Apple RAID card

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Dreaded Apple RAID card

This is driving me nuts.

I have two Apple RAID cards (for early 2009 Mac Pro) - so I could swap them - but the problem persists.

Mac Pro Nehalem 2 x 2.26Ghz (octo). Apple RAID card (the one that is compatible with the 2009 models). 4 x 300 GB WD Raptors (I tried with 4 x WD RE3 - same issue).

The RAID 5 is created at OS install with no problems (OS detects all four drives). After few reboots (various other installs like iLife, FCP Studio etc) the drive in bay 3 disappears and the RAID 5 degrades. Sometimes after zapping NVRAM/PRAM the drive reappears.

Now - the confounding issues:
1. This happens regardless of the RAID card (I have 2 that I am swapping - identical cards - identical issues) - so it is not the card;
2. This happens regardless of how I am shuffling the drives (it is bay-dependent rather than drive-dependent);
3. One would assume that this is a connector issue - but again the RAID is created with no problem and sometimes reappears after resetting the PRAM/NVRAM (not anymore after EFI 1.4 firmware upgrade)
4. It is independent of the graphics card (I changed to an NVidia GT 120) or the absence/presence of the Blackmagic Intensity Pro;
5. It is independent of the memory (I have 16 GB Crucial - changed back to 6 GB Apple original one - no have the same problems).

Any suggestions?

Cristian

Mac Pro Nehalem (early 2009) 2.26 x 2 octo, Mac OS X (10.6.2), ATI 4870, Intensity Pro

Posted on Jan 19, 2010 4:59 AM

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Answer 1

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CristianDusa Author

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Jan 19, 2010 10:39 PM in response to Malcolm Rayfield

Umm...

From OWC web site:
"OWC NOTE: The 2009 'Nehalem' Mac Pro does not have the accessible miniSAS connection necessary to utilize the internal capabilities of this card."

From CalDigit's email (and confirmed by the CarDigit tech support:
"On the new MacPro, Apple removed the internal MiniSAS connector, which is the key component for the majority 3rd party internal RAID card."

MaxUpdate's approach is:
http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category _id=332

but see the thread:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1949128&tstart=360

None of the cards boots from internal disks in Nehalem-based computers/motherboards. Only Apple's.

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Answer 2

Mar 1, 2010 6:15 PM in response to CristianDusa

I don't have any experience with WD Raptors, but I have the card in my 2009 MP and I have had no problems with it. It was CTO and I had to have it shipped to me after my MP arrived. Anyway I had this card in a number of my clients machines in DC without issue. I would say try standard drives and see how it does after that it most likely the MLB.It should still be covered under AppleCare in regards to the MLB. I would have a AASP check it out via ASD and some drive tests. The connections are now on the MLB where before they where on a cable. To sum up have the MLB checked out, but try standard 7200 RPM drives first.

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Answer 3

The hatter

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61,031 points

Jan 19, 2010 8:56 AM in response to CristianDusa

You have listed some of the reasons I and others advise against Apple Pro RAID. Apple's drives have different firmware. Seagate SAS drives probably work.

In the past storage controller vendors really did list what drives were, and were not, certified and tested. Apple is mum (and not just on this product) about compatibility, but I do know others tried Samsung F1 RAID Edition drives and found they don't work. And WD. Not sure about Hitachi, maybe they do.

Heck, I would never recommend buying drives from Apple, unless it is a necessity. All of my drives are WD and most 10K VRs, some Black. So I do use and like them,.

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Answer 4

Jan 20, 2010 2:47 PM in response to CristianDusa

MaxUpdate's approach is:
http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category _id=332

That is not for the 2009 Mac Pro. The one I linked to is for the 2009 version.

None of the cards boots from internal disks in Nehalem-based computers/motherboards. Only Apple's.

Yes, but the adapter cable can be used to RAID just three of the drives and leave one bootable, or you can put an extra drive drive in the lower optical bay.

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Answer 5

Jan 19, 2010 6:44 PM in response to CristianDusa

Is the Apple RAID one of the few cards where you can move drives around and the controller will figure out which drives are which (i.e. disk 1 doesn't always have to be in slot 1)? If so, if you power down, move drives around, will it now see the drive that used to be in slot three, and does the drive that is now in slot 3?

If so, then that would narrow it down to a problem with that port - which, frankly, is what it sounds like you have anyway. The problem is, like Hatter states - with non-Apple drives you probably aren't going to get Apple to do anything about it 😟

While you probably hate the idea of loosing your investment in the Apple RAID cards, I would be looking at one of the couple of cards out there that will plug into the Apple RAID slot and work just like the Apple RAID.

It doesn't help you, but after reading this forum for the past couple of months, I'm really glad I didn't spring for the Apple RAID card - sheesh!

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Answer 6

CristianDusa Author

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Jan 19, 2010 6:57 PM in response to Eric Eskam

Oh - it gets better.

Called CalDigit - they +used to make a card+ that was compatible with Apple RAID for internal drives until Apple changed the Mini-SAS connector on the motherboard in 2009. So no - no other card is compatible with the internal disks - the CalDigit RAID card works in 2009 Nehalems only for external RAID arrays.

(btw - the CalDigit guys - very helpful and with very short time-to-talk-to-a-real-person).

Cristian

(I shuffled the hard drives to all the statistical positions - there are 16 possible combinations - I tried at least 8 - and it is always in the slot 3).

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Answer 7

Jan 19, 2010 7:24 PM in response to CristianDusa

Called CalDigit - they +used to make a card+ that was compatible with Apple RAID for internal drives until Apple changed the Mini-SAS connector on the motherboard in 2009. So no - no other card is compatible with the internal disks - the CalDigit RAID card works in 2009 Nehalems only for external RAID arrays.

There are adapters to use other RAID cards with internal drives in the 2009 Mac Pro.
http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_i d=189%20
<http://www.njfcpug.org/?q=content/new-internal-raid-solution-mac-pro>

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Answer 8

CristianDusa Author

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Jan 19, 2010 7:33 PM in response to Malcolm Rayfield

Actually - that is true in a different context. The RAIDs mentioned in MaxUpgrade's website require a backplane (164$ worth) and they do not use the internal routing of the Apple RAID card/PCI Express.

From the CalDigit's email from today:

"Dear customer,

The CalDigit RAIDCard does not work with new MacPro (Nehalem), it will only serve as the controller card for the external units (HDElement).

On the new MacPro, Apple removed the internal MiniSAS connector, which is the key component for the majority 3rd party internal RAID card.

Without this MiniSAS connector (AKA iPass cable), the new Apple RAIDCard is the only solution.

Best regards,

[xxxxx]
CalDigit - Support"

I wanted to buy their card (great in 2008 systems) but they discouraged me.

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Answer 9

The hatter

Level 9

61,031 points

Jan 19, 2010 6:29 AM in response to CristianDusa

Does Apple certify those drives, or does the card work with Apple supplied drives? usually 3rd party retail drives don't, though it is sort of surprising.

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Answer 10

CristianDusa Author

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Jan 19, 2010 8:50 AM in response to The hatter

1. The HDDs are NOT Apple-bought drives. The price of the apple-drives is in the 600$/apiece and - as usual - they are prohibitively priced. So are the Promise ones. The drives are enterprise-grade WD VelociRaptors (300 GB);
2. The puzzling issue is the constant failing of drive 3 after few reboots (or firmware upgrades), no matter what drive I plug in that slot, no matter what RAID card I put in the system (I have two cards - as mentioned above). No matter how I shuffle the drives - it still randomly "hides" the drive in bay 3;
3. Doesn't seem to be an electrical problem - the drive is seen initially then it hides away;
4. Doesn't seem to be a thermal problem - the system might work fine for days without a reboot - then at the next reboot the drive in bay 3 disappears;
5. Doesn't seem to be a hardware problem - it happens with any video card (either ATI or NVidia cards, Apple-branded or Crucial-branded memory and with or without video capture cards installed).

I am obviously frustrated after shelling 6k in a computer.

Any ideas?

Cristian

(no - buying Promise drives from Apple Store with 750US$ apiece - to a total of 3000$ for 1.2 TB of storage is not an option).

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Answer 11

Samsara

Level 4

1,327 points

Feb 26, 2010 6:45 AM in response to Malcolm Rayfield

Hi,

No one need respond to this, as I'm not sure how related to the discussion it is. But in trying to mount an internal RAID for the 09', even though this says it's for G5's, could this card not actually work? Say's it's Snow Leopard compatible?
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Sonnet%20Technology/TSATAIIE4I/

Sorry if this is off topic.

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Answer 12

Jan 19, 2010 8:09 PM in response to CristianDusa

The MaxUpgrade adapters come with a MiniSAS cable to connect to the internal drives, so should work with the CalDigit RAIDCard,

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