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User profile for user: petemay
petemay Author
User level: Level 2
475 points

Using a Sony HVR-M25U for video playback

I know this isn't strictly a Final Cut question. I'm just hoping that some smart Final Cut editor is using the same Sony deck as I use and can help me out. Also, sorry for the length. I've included every detail I thought might be germane.

Since I started editing HDV I've always used Digital Cinema Desktop Preview for monitoring my edits. I suppose due to a lack of computing power it's never looked very good in motion, though it looks nice and clean when stilled. Today I bought an HDMI cable, hoping to allow me to monitor my work in FCP, sending the video via iLink (FireWire) through my Sony HVR-M25U to my HD monitor.

Now, I use my HVR-M25U Videocassette recorder deck to log and capture footage in Final Cut Pro. That works fine. I can view video straight off HDV tapes on my High Definition monitor via the HDMI input. That works fine. I can even use the Print to Video function and see the HDV output both in the LCD screen on the front of the deck and on the monitor through the HDMI input. The trouble I'm having is in using the M25U to monitor my editing via iLink.

In the old days, working with DV, I had a DSR 40 and I was able to use that deck to monitor my FCP output via iLink, taking a component out to my standard def monitor. Is there some reason I can't use this HDV deck the same way? I've tried refreshing A/V devices in Final Cut. I don't see any iLink or Firewire choices in my view menu. I do see a whole list of HDV (1440 x 1080) choices but they're all greyed out. These choices also exist in my Audio/Video Settings screen under "Playback Output" but, again, they are greyed out. Oddly, from having used the Cinema Desktop Preview, I have "Different Output for Edit to Tape/Print to Video" checked and under that pulldown the same eight HDV (1440 x 1080) choices do exist and they are not greyed out. Checked or unchecked, that doesn't change the Playback Output menu.

I can't see any logical deck settings to adjust. Under "IN/OUT" settings I have "HDV/DV SEL" on Auto, my "Video Out" as 1080i/480i and "i.LINK SET" (the DV down-convert) is off.

I've also tried shutting down FCP and relaunching and shutting the deck off and firing it back up. I've tried the deck first and then FCP and I've tried the opposite. I also tried restarting. Still nothing.

If I can feed HDV from the deck into my computer via iLink, shouldn't I be able to feed HDV from my computer to the deck? Like I said, I can record HDV via Firewire to the deck. Shouldn't I be able to see that same HDV output on the deck's LCD screen and also through the deck's HDMI output when editing?

In case it matters, I'm running FCP 6.06, OS X 10.6.2 on a 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad Core Xeon with 4GB RAM.

Thanks in advance for anyone who's taken the time to actually read this long question and a special thanks to anyone who might be able to help.

Peter

MacPro Quad, MacBook Air, 2 G5's, 2 G4's, 17" MB, 12" PB, 17" PB, Mac OS X (10.6.2), All told, 15 TB of mismanaged storage

Posted on Jan 19, 2010 12:04 PM

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User profile for user: Shane Ross
Shane Ross
User level: Level 8
43,110 points

Posted on Jan 19, 2010 12:29 PM

#25 HDV external Monitor Viewing

Shane's Stock Answer #25 - HDV external Monitor Viewing

To view HDV on an external monitor in high definition you are going to need to purchase a capture card, like the ones Decklink (www.decklink.com) or AJA (www.aja.com) offer. They will both play out HDV in real time. The catch is that you cannot view this on a regular TV or NTSC monitor. Since this is HD, an HD monitor will be needed. HOWEVER, both cards are capable of down converting the signal so that it can be displayed on an SD monitor. This won't be color accurate

The real reason why you can't monitor HDV through a Firewire camera is because Firewire HDV cameras don't decode incoming HDV streams and route them to their outputs like DV cameras do.

Good options for you are the Matrox MXO2...$500...coupled with an HDTV. Or a Matrox MXO (DVI connection) coupled with an Apple 23" display gets you good quality.

And there are the Decklink Intensity and Intensity PRO cards as well, and the AJA I/O Express...

You can, however, view HDV out via firewire as DV...lowering the resolution to that of DV, but still viewable. This is not full quality nor should it be used to judge the quality of your footage or used to color correct to. This is just a way to view the footage on a large monitor.

Here are some examples of some of the possibilities:

- DV or HDV sequence output to an SDI signal on a third-party interface
- An uncompressed NTSC or PAL sequence output to a DV FireWire output
- An HDV sequence output to a DV FireWire output

Sequence and output formats must have compatible frame rates. For example,
sequences with a frame rate of 60, 30, or 24 fps can be output to a 30 fps device,
but not to a 25 or 50 fps device.

Shane

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User profile for user: Shane Ross
Shane Ross
User level: Level 8
43,110 points

Jan 19, 2010 12:29 PM in response to petemay

#25 HDV external Monitor Viewing

Shane's Stock Answer #25 - HDV external Monitor Viewing

To view HDV on an external monitor in high definition you are going to need to purchase a capture card, like the ones Decklink (www.decklink.com) or AJA (www.aja.com) offer. They will both play out HDV in real time. The catch is that you cannot view this on a regular TV or NTSC monitor. Since this is HD, an HD monitor will be needed. HOWEVER, both cards are capable of down converting the signal so that it can be displayed on an SD monitor. This won't be color accurate

The real reason why you can't monitor HDV through a Firewire camera is because Firewire HDV cameras don't decode incoming HDV streams and route them to their outputs like DV cameras do.

Good options for you are the Matrox MXO2...$500...coupled with an HDTV. Or a Matrox MXO (DVI connection) coupled with an Apple 23" display gets you good quality.

And there are the Decklink Intensity and Intensity PRO cards as well, and the AJA I/O Express...

You can, however, view HDV out via firewire as DV...lowering the resolution to that of DV, but still viewable. This is not full quality nor should it be used to judge the quality of your footage or used to color correct to. This is just a way to view the footage on a large monitor.

Here are some examples of some of the possibilities:

- DV or HDV sequence output to an SDI signal on a third-party interface
- An uncompressed NTSC or PAL sequence output to a DV FireWire output
- An HDV sequence output to a DV FireWire output

Sequence and output formats must have compatible frame rates. For example,
sequences with a frame rate of 60, 30, or 24 fps can be output to a 30 fps device,
but not to a 25 or 50 fps device.

Shane

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User profile for user: petemay
petemay Author
User level: Level 2
475 points

Jan 20, 2010 1:53 PM in response to Shane Ross

Shane Ross wrote:

The real reason why you can't monitor HDV through a Firewire camera is because Firewire HDV cameras don't decode incoming HDV streams and route them to their outputs like DV cameras do.


Thanks for the info Shane. I hope you don't mind if I try to clarify a few things with you.
I know you sent a "stock" rather than customized answer but, just for clarity, I do have an HD monitor, I'm editing at the same frame rate and I need to monitor in HD so I'm not interested in seeing down-converted DV. Also, I'm talking about a Playback/Record deck, not a camera. Does the same hold true? There's no live decoding going on?
The deck is capable of doing real-time decoding. I know that because I can print to tape out of FCP and see the image on the LCD screen of the deck and on my HD monitor through the HDMI connection. I wonder (and this is clearly rhetorical) why it's not a full time monitoring feed? I have contacted Sony to ask but I've yet to hear back.
Finally, is HDV being fed out of my computer via Firewire at all times? So, at the most basic level, all I need is a third party break-out box that can read the Firewire signal and give me either an HDMI or a component out?
Thanks in advance,
Pete
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User profile for user: Shane Ross
Shane Ross
User level: Level 8
43,110 points

Jan 20, 2010 2:06 PM in response to petemay

Stock answer or no...it is THE answer.

I'm talking about a Playback/Record deck, not a camera. Does the same hold true?


Yup. GOP formats cannot be viewed in HD via firewire. Nature of the beast...er...format.

There's no live decoding going on?


Nope.

The deck is capable of doing real-time decoding. I know that because I can print to tape out of FCP and see the image on the LCD screen


Notice that when you PRINT TO TAPE that FCP takes a while to CONFORM the footage? It is converting it from the captured format back to a tape format that the deck can see and then record. You cannot print to tape without conforming. You cannot just press PLAY on the timeline and RECORD on the deck.

I wonder (and this is clearly rhetorical) why it's not a full time monitoring feed?


Some highly technical reason. Deep engineering stuff. Ask Sony why. THey invented HDV.

have contacted Sony to ask but I've yet to hear back


Oh...heee.

Finally, is HDV being fed out of my computer via Firewire at all times?


No.

all I need is a third party break-out box that can read the Firewire signal and give me either an HDMI or a component out?


No. You need a capture card or capture box that connects via Express34 (laptop) or PCIe (Tower) that will directly convert the signal to Component, SDI or HDMI. There is a firewire box (AJA IOHD), but that only works with ProRes, it doesn't send an HDV signal out.

Shane

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Using a Sony HVR-M25U for video playback

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